Voices of Leadership: Insights and Inspirations from Women Leaders

Bridging Industries: Melissa Durrell on Leadership, Entrepreneurship, Communications, Journalism and Politics

• Bespoke Projects • Season 1 • Episode 15

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In this episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with Melissa Durrell, the CEO and Chief Strategist of Durrell Communications, and a partner with Roseview Global Incubator. Melissa's diverse background includes successful careers in politics, award-winning Canadian broadcast journalism, and her current work with international entrepreneurs looking to establish and grow their companies in Canada.

Join us as Melissa shares invaluable insights on the value of listening and the power of storytelling, whether it's within the confines of a Canadian boardroom or on a global stage in China. Together, we delve into the unique challenges that women leaders encounter, especially during their thirties and forties, which are pivotal stages in their professional journeys.

Our conversation spans a wide range of compelling topics, including Melissa's experiences in the communications field, her endeavours with international entrepreneurs, reflections on democracy, perspectives on the current state of housing, and even her role as a pitching coach for Team Canada. This episode offers something for everyone, so be sure to tune in for an enriching and thought-provoking discussion.

Connect with Melissa
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During our conversation, we talk about some past episodes. Please find the links here:
Rose Greensides
Sherry Shannon-Vanstone

Resources
Profound Impact
Women’s Municipal Campaign School
Communitech
Roseview Global Incubator

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Melissa:

When you feel alone, it's harder to fight. It's way easier to move things forward when you have like-minded people around you. So I think my biggest thing would be support the female leaders. You see, at the end of the day, most of the women that are in these leadership positions, they knew what they were getting into, but it's how long can you sustain that? And I think that's where we need to bring in that backup, the battalion of amazing women to back them up.

Amy:

Welcome to Voices of Leadership, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the remarkable women of the International Women's Forum. I'm your host, amy, and I'm inviting you on a journey through the minds of trailblazers. Each episode is a candid conversation with women leaders who are reshaping industries, defying norms and being instigators of change. Through these conversations, we aim to ignite a fire of inspiration within you, whether you're a budding leader, a seasoned executive or simply someone with a passion for growth. On today's episode, we talk with Melissa Durrell, the CEO and Chief Strategist of Durrell Communications. She is also a partner with the Roseview Global Incubator, a company that works with international entrepreneurs looking to build and expand their companies in Canada. Before that, melissa had a successful career in both politics and as an award-winning Canadian broadcast journalist. We cover a wide array of topics, delving into Melissa's experience in the communications field, her work with international entrepreneurs, reflections on democracy, insights into the current state of housing and even her role as a pitch coach for Team Canada. Hi, melissa, welcome to the podcast.

Amy:

It's great to see you, amy. It's so good to be sitting across from you right now. I know I'm glad that we were able to do it. Yes, so you and I have a lot of six degrees of separation connections.

Melissa:

Kevin Bacon all over the place.

Amy:

Absolutely, which is so interesting, but I'm really looking forward to this conversation to get to know you a little bit better as well. Thank you.

Melissa:

Me too.

Amy:

So let's start obviously with IWF.

Melissa:

When and how did you hear about IWF? Well, I guess, like many of us from Waterloo, the I don't even know how to describe her Sherry Shannon Vanstone. She's indescribable. She is a yeah, she is a part of our tech sector. She's part of our leadership circles. She's an amazing mentor to me. So she originally I was working with her on the board at WCT, women Communication Technology, and I also get to work with her company, profound Impact, which is incredible. So it was a really great surprise and honor to be asked to be part of IWF and I'm really really enjoying it. It's one of the things I look forward to the most when I get to get to get together on our dine arounds or whatever with the other women. So, yeah, I'm loving it. Thank you, sherry, if you're listening. Thank you, sherry.

Amy:

I think she is, and you're not the first person to mention Sherry as a connector with IWF.

Melissa:

Yeah, she is a networker and I mean you can ask her anybody. She knows them, yes, or she can find a person who does. It's amazing, I love her.

Amy:

Well, we all know how awesome Sherry is, but you yourself have had such a wonderfully varied career, from a broadcast journalist to politician, to pitch coach, mentor and investor. I doubt we can cover all of them in this episode, so you might have to come back.

Melissa:

But what is one of the current projects you're working on right now, either with Darrell Communications or outside of it? Well, probably the most exciting thing I'm working on right now is I'm off to China in a couple of weeks. So I've been pitch coaching for about 10, 15 years and it started from my journalist background actually. So we had this amazing tech sector that was growing in Waterloo region and I remember coming into Communitech and they were saying we've got these brilliant engineers, mathematicians.

Melissa:

At that point, I mean, this is like 10, 15 years ago we were competing against New York Silicon Valley. We were on an international, global stage, and yet our entrepreneurs didn't have that same kind of cachet on a stage that we really wanted to have. So I sort of took that on as I'm going to become a pitch coach. So I learned everything that I could about it and I've been pitch coaching now companies through the Accelerator Center Mars all across Canada. But one of the things that I got involved with through Benton Leong, who's a local angel investor and he's the mentor of mine, he brought me into something called the SAI Innovation Organization and they bring Canadian companies over to China for international competition, pitch competition, and they venture capitalists from all over the world. So four years ago I pitch coached them and Canada swept the podium.

Melissa:

Just a little humble brag here for Canada, but we won gold, silver, bronze and we also had some running up, and so this year we've got 15 Canadian companies. They're amazing, and so this year I've been invited along to Shenzhen, China, that's so exciting To coach them.

Melissa:

So I'm Team Canada's pitch coach, which is so fun, so I'm really looking forward to that, and all 15 companies can definitely win gold. We're working on it right now, so hopefully I'll have really great news. There's a couple of female founders in there, but it is dominantly male, as the tech sector is.

Amy:

Yes, but that's very exciting for you. And who knew there was an international pitch competition?

Melissa:

I know and I can't wait to see the other companies, simply because, I mean, I keep my eye on New York and Silicon Valley and, prior to what's happening right now in Israel, tel Aviv had a really dynamic tech sector as well. I'm sure it still does, but we're not seeing the same pitching coming out of it. But what's going on in the pitch world and how are companies changing their stories to attract attention? Because really, 15 years ago it was pretty. You know what's the problem, what's the solution, what's your market like? That? You know it was pretty simple. Now, things, things are you got to keep the investors attention. So it's great storytelling and that's what I love, uh, so it's really. Yeah, just how can you tell a story that entices somebody to write a check?

Amy:

and that's really what I do with all these companies now, so it's fun obviously, on the world stage, having the ability to pitch correctly and effectively is important, but I also feel like it's a skill that everyone should have. So if you're helping sort of a company not going to China, what does pitch coaching look like?

Melissa:

Well, it starts really with their business plan, and most of the almost every company that comes to me has a really good business plan already, and so it's taking that business plan and turning it into a story. And typically that story comes from the problem. The company is never the hero. Your solution is helping someone be a hero, so it's your customer that's your hero, and how can your solution help them be the hero? So it's looking at. You know, is it life-saving or is it time-saving? Yeah, that's I mean.

Melissa:

One thing people say to me all the time is like I don't really get stressed about the environment or anything like that, because I'm seeing the technologies that are coming forward right now. Same with the labor force. There's so much coming forward and you get to be on the cutting edge of what's happening there. So that's exciting. Spend most of their time in labs listening to music, coding, giving them the courage to stand on a stage and present their idea slowly, because that's one thing they all just want to burn through it. But also engaging people, right, because that's what's going to make somebody write a check and help you grow your company. But everybody can do it. I think nonprofits, I mean one of the things that we've been doing at a great organization locally, svp Social Venture Partners is working with nonprofits to tell their stories.

Amy:

I just talked to Rose last week actually. Oh right on. Her episode will be coming up soon.

Melissa:

Awesome, yeah, so that's a really fun thing too, and I think so many of the nonprofits are. Really that's one of the things they don't spend a lot of time on is telling their stories, and they talk about the problem, problem, problem and not how they can be a solution, and I think that that's one of the nice turning points we're seeing with Perfect Pitch. I'll back up Rose.

Amy:

Yeah, yeah, she told me all about it. It was sounded like such a fun event.

Melissa:

It was great, and I think it's. We're in our fourth or fifth year now, like it's been running for a while.

Amy:

So pitch coaching is only one of the things that you do and one of the careers that you've had, so can you talk to us about how you've had to adapt your leadership style in each of your careers?

Melissa:

Yeah, I love this question actually because it's interesting. As a journalist, you are in a leadership position but you're being told by your newsroom consistently what you can do, the story you're telling. So that's a tougher place to flex your leadership skills. And I found I really struggled in that environment because I was always trying to see, like, how do we make things better and I think that that's where a leader comes from how do I make things better not only for the people I'm working with, but for the people that we're talking to or who we're helping people I'm working with, but for the people that we're talking to or who we're helping. And so the shift from journalism I was truly in a burned out space at that point when I left it and I jumped right into being a citizen say jumped I ran to be a city councillor, was fortunate enough to be elected Thank you, uptown Waterloo. But that was really a major shift from the person who was interviewing people telling their stories to all of a sudden being the decision maker. And I think it was. I loved it because I'd been wanting that for so long. I think as a journalist, that all of a sudden to be able to do it was really natural for me and I really enjoyed it.

Melissa:

The biggest learning point for me with politics is you really have to make sure that you've got all your ducks in a row. So you know, I had big ideas my first couple of years in there. I want to do this, I want to do this, and you can't do anything unless you've got majority. And I learned that very quickly after. I think it was fire pits and chicken coops both got voted down and I was like what? These are completely normal things for our community. Why are we voting them down? And I was like what? These are completely normal things for our community, why are we voting them down? And I realized, okay, I've got to talk to people, I've got to get my votes. So it was a really quick learning curve on that aspect. But I mean, I think one of the biggest things for a leader is listening, and as a politician, you spend 80 to 90% of your time listening to what people are asking you, wanting. They're, effectively, you're like they vote for you, they're your bosses and even if they didn't vote for you, they're your bosses.

Amy:

Yes, that's true.

Melissa:

So you've got to listen to them too. So I think that was a big thing for me to start flexing who I was as a leader, and I really enjoyed it. But I also know that as a politician and I truly believe this, Amy, and I think that this is something I'd like to see change over the next five, 10 years in our country is, I believe, in term limits. I think you know it's four years a term. So I was in for eight years At the end of eight years and I don't know how people go on for like 12, on and on and on. I don't know how, and maybe they're special people, but that you stay humble and know who you are as that leader, the leader that listens. And I think for me, I knew I was done. The calls never stopped, the buildings never stopped getting built, the traffic continues to increase and I think the more that that was going on, the less patience I was having, and I think you have to be a good listener and you have to be patient. My patience was now. There was no longer any patience.

Melissa:

So at that point I'd also started my own company and I was really enjoying that female mentorship. My company is a communications company and I was hiring mostly women. There's a you know. It just seemed that that was the way that it was going. I'd worked in a lot of male dominated spaces and so I was really attracted to creating this like group of amazing women that would work with me, and I love that. I to this day.

Melissa:

It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever had, as being the CEO of Daryl Communications. I love it. I think a politician was the best MBA I could have ever gotten in the sense of like around leadership. But running my own company I mean I have to make sure that I'm making enough money so I can pay my employees, they can get the benefits they deserve, their families get fed. So that kind of pressure is very different than being a politician where you're working with like multi-million dollar budgets and then growing a company has been different too. But I think all aspects I think being a business leader has made me a better politician. So it might be something I go back to and if my patience comes back, I'll be ready for it again.

Amy:

That was going to be one of my questions.

Melissa:

What is?

Amy:

your political aspirations in the future.

Melissa:

Yeah, I mean I'm really fascinated right now with democracy and what democracy looks like and, as we're watching the United States and see what's happening with their democracy misinformation that's out there.

Melissa:

I was really curious. I saw Justin Trudeau has been putting out a lot of one-on-one videos talking to millennials, talking to youth. They're very youth focused, putting them all on social, and the comments that are under his videos are unbelievable negative and I actually kind of was like I'm like I'm going to just see if there's a single positive one, and I didn't find one for one that was on a Toronto Instagram account and that's really interesting to me because I mean, you can say whether you like or dislike a person, but you always have to respect the position that they hold, and one thing I've really seen falter over the last couple of years is respect for those positions, and so I'm interested in that. I don't know how you bring it back. Interested in that. I don't know how you bring it back, but I do think as business leaders, we have we have an obligation to start to speak up and I think it's easy as a business.

Melissa:

One of the things I, when I left politics and just focused on my companies, is I was like, okay, I'm out of politics now and but I think that's actually and I think a lot of women do this and actually, and men to like, I think a lot of corporate leaders step back, and I actually think that's actually and I think a lot of women do this and actually, and men too, I think a lot of corporate leaders step back, and I actually think there's some really interesting things that are happening in America right now, where corporate leaders are meeting and getting together and trying to break through some of the misinformations out there, and actually that's something that really appeals to me here in Canada, because whether you're conservative, a liberal, an NDP, a green, whatever you are, we still need to run this country, and taking down our leaders to the extent that we are today is frightening.

Melissa:

Why would you ever want to run If you are going to be stabbed in the back, called all sorts of names? This is not a healthy democracy that we're setting up for ourselves right now. So, yes, I'm interested in going back, but I don't know if maybe part of my role will actually be working with corporate leaders to start saying we need to protect our leaders, whether we like what they're doing or not, we need to protect them because this is democracy we're talking about, and that frightens me so long answer.

Amy:

I love what you're saying, I agree. I think that the position needs to be respected and it's not. I have trouble with that too, and I love the idea of corporate leaders are standing up and modeling what we should be doing.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Amy:

I think that, and you're right, who would go into politics? Why you would just be torn down. How long would your patience last? How long would your listening last? Probably not as long as it did when you were in city council, I would think.

Melissa:

Yeah, we are effectively making it a job that no one wants. Yes, how are we going to have an effective democracy?

Amy:

How do you get effective leaders if it's a job that nobody wants? You're not getting maybe the best of the best.

Melissa:

And maybe that's a national conversation. Well, that's the problem we're having right now and I'll talk to people and be like you know. There's a joke in America right now. There's a guy running and I think he changed his name on his driver's license to no other choices, and I actually hear people talking about that right now, and they're not talking about the parties, they're talking about the leaders, and that's interesting to me too.

Melissa:

And I mean you can look at whether, like Justin Trudeau and Pierre Polyev are very similar individuals if you look at them on paper. If you take it out, pierre Polyev has only ever been an elected official. How do you know what it's like to run a business that Justin Trudeau was a teacher, my husband's a teacher, I love teachers, but you are protected within a union and your job is always protected, and and I and I think there's something to be said for really grinding it out there which 80% of our economy is funded by the small business owners that are out there grinding every day it's a different feeling. I have to work 10 hours a day.

Melissa:

I worked 12 hours a day when I started my companies. Right, and I'm not saying I'm any better than teachers or anybody else. These are the decisions I made while I was starting, like, in my career. But I do think that too many of our politicians don't understand and they're making legislation around things that affect 80% of our economy and they don't actually know what it looks like, and that's scary. So that's another reason we got to speak up. It's all kinds of different change.

Amy:

We got to figure out how to make it happen. Change is going to happen. That's another reason we got to speak up. It's all kinds of different change We've got to figure out how to make it happen.

Melissa:

Change is going to happen, that's right. We just got to make sure it's effective. Effective and good, because a lot of our institutions are in trouble right now, and that's what scares me Education system or health care system. Sorry, amy, I'll go on for a long time around this one.

Amy:

No, it's good. Along with that is media. I read an article about you earlier this year and you said one of the biggest challenges with public relations agencies is our biggest stakeholder, which would be the media. Can you expand on that a?

Melissa:

bit Well, even here in our own community. I was just dealing with a lot of my friends that got laid off at CTV, so there's still a few that were left there and I'm actually just talking to one of the producers this week and he's like I'm still here. I'm like I'm so glad. But you know it is. It's a struggle. I don't know how to fix it because I do. I don't believe that CBC should be so heavily funded by the public. I was a CTV girl so we were privately funded organization but because media doesn't make money, it kept. You know it's been bought by a large, large corporation and they're looking at bottom lines. I don't know what the answer is. I know that people there has to be the I believe it's the fourth estate right. So we have to have that third party reporting on what's going on in our world. It's so important when we talk about democracy. This 100% leads back to a healthy democracy is a private media that can report on anything. So I really struggle with this. I think you know when we go back about 10 years and everybody started writing their own stories, so blogs, I mean, maybe it's even longer than that and aging myself, but you know, when we go back about 10 years and everybody started writing their own story. So blogs I mean, maybe it's even longer than that, I'm aging myself, but you know telling your own story. So people have, but that is still you as an organization, telling your story. When we read news releases, we know that the news release is being written by that organization and this is the information they're giving out. But it's definitely their slant on it, right, they're giving out, but it's definitely their slant on it, right? So reporters take that information and look at it in hopefully an unbiased way. We're missing that right now. I know some universities aren't even doing journalism anymore. They're changing it to a communications program and that is frightening.

Melissa:

I think that with everything there's a pendulum and it swings. I think that the last couple of months, years, we've seen people actually starting to fight and you're seeing signs on people's lawns saying save the CBC, massively public funded organization. But people still want it because they feel it's valuable. So I hope that, because it's a really ground up approach, like you know, if you, if you're, if you're reading all of your news, like people need to remember that we are. We determine what, what gets, what gets money and what doesn't. So when you don't read the record and you don't watch CTV Kitchener, you are directly taking from their bottom line, and I'm not saying that you know that those are the best news organizations in our city right now, but that's what we've got. We've got to continue to support it.

Melissa:

I work a ton in the city of London and they're really losing their media organizations right now, and the city is actually the municipality is struggling because how do they get their information out? I talked to a little rural township that we're doing some comms work for through my company. They don't actually have a newspaper, a radio station in their entire community. The closest one is Ottawa and Cornwall, so it's really interesting too. But so how do they get their news out to their people? So I do think you know every town had a little local newspaper and it was affordable. Maybe they weren't driving around in town in a Porsche, but it was enough that they could run that as a small business.

Melissa:

Something's changed. You can't go back, but what does it look like in the future? And I think we're starting to see that now there's too many good writers out there. I have to believe. I'm an optimist though, amy, and sometimes that's my strength, but it's also one of my major weaknesses too, cause I'm like I believe it's going to change, but I don't know what it looks like, but it will.

Melissa:

I do believe we have to have it. Our democracy is at stake. Yeah, I agree, I mean you you.

Amy:

You losing the small newspapers is something.

Melissa:

I mean the.

Amy:

That's where you get learn about people in town and things like that. It's always. The Chronicle is always fun to read in high school because whoever did whatever whatever high school game, you read about your friends and that was kind of fun right yeah, local sports. It's missing a little bit, but we'll figure it out, I guess. Something else we can add to the list the things that need to be figured out.

Melissa:

Oh, that's my life, I'm constantly like too many things to do.

Amy:

I'm going to have to live to 150. So we've talked a little bit about politics and business, and you're an advocate for women's voices in both of those places. So what are your thoughts on the state of women's leadership today in politics and business?

Melissa:

I mean I'm really lucky and I appreciate you saying that, but I, everything I do, I do with other women. I think that's the power of so many of the amazing organizations we have. As other women are stepping up, I just get to stand alongside them. So I appreciate the compliment, but definitely want to push it back to the other amazing. We now talk about it. Five, even 10 years ago I could look around a room and I was the only woman in that room and I had to be quiet about it. Now I feel like we actually call it. I do call it out.

Melissa:

If I'm on a board or if I'm in one of my companies, I'm in a hiring situation and we need more women around this table. We need more diversity around the table. So I think that has changed, that we can call it out, and all of the work that's being done around diversity, equity and inclusion allows us those voices to be able to call it out. That said, I run a women's campaign school with several other women in this community and it's getting harder and harder to convince women to run. So that is amazing and I think that has to do with the misinformation and not wanting to get attacked, and many of us, like I, have children.

Melissa:

It was one of the reasons why I left politics is I didn't want my children to be affected by the decisions I made at City Hall and then be called out on it. It was when I was a young girl and my father was in politics. I dealt with that on a regular basis, so I knew I didn't want my kids to deal with that. So what is leadership changed? Is that the question? How has leadership changed?

Amy:

Well, what's the state of it?

Melissa:

And I guess, what do you want to see going?

Amy:

forward. Where are the holes? What do we need to do next?

Melissa:

Well, I think organizations like IWF are incredible because when you feel alone, I think you have less. It's harder to fight, you can, it's way easier to move things forward when you have like-minded people around you. And I think what I love about IWF is, every time I go and I sit around a table with women, we all have the same, we're all going through the same things or we've dealt with same things, or so somebody can mentor me through what I'm going through. I love to be in a room full of women because we can be so honest about the sexism that we deal with on a regular basis and the inequality that we deal with on a regular basis and the inequality. It's not. That's not something. I don't know if that happened in the past, but it's definitely something that I try to bring to a table so we can talk about it, so we can be there for each other. But I I'll admit like I still feel so siloed, so much of my life, because you know, I think you just kind of put your head down and you keep working. So I think organizations like this help. It's helped me, so I'm assuming it's helping a lot of other female leaders.

Melissa:

I think the biggest hole is we need to find each other, because we burn out way quicker. If I had more female mentors around me when I was in politics, maybe I would have stayed in a different role, because I do believe in term limits, so maybe I'd go on to be run for mayor or something else. Now that I'm out, it's really hard to get back in, because boy, is that a lot of work. It is a lot of work. So I think my biggest thing would be support the female leaders. You see, and if you are a female leader, ask for support too. It's okay and we know it. Like as soon as you ask for it, I'm like oh, I hear you.

Melissa:

So I think that that's what I'd like to see, because, at the end of the day, most of the women that are in these leadership positions, they knew what they were getting into, but it's how long can you sustain that? And I think that's where we need to bring in that backup, the battalion of amazing women to back them up. That's what I see and that's like that's why I'm in IWF and WCT and mentorship and those kinds of things, because I felt so lonely going through it in my early 20s and 30s. So now, at this age, whatever I can give back, I want to be able to give back. So mentorship is huge. Sherry is, like, really truly one of the I think one of the women that maybe see that in a different way, because that's really one of the things. So when we talk about mentorship, it's so important.

Amy:

I agree. So let's talk a little bit about mentorship. We know that it's important, and you've talked a little bit about how Sherry has been a mentor to you. Can you talk to us about?

Melissa:

some of your experiences as a mentor or as a mentee Mm. Hmm Well, I truly am inspired by some incredible women in our community and you know, some of them are friends, like I think about Catherine Fife, karen Covielo, like we were all started in politics they were a little bit earlier than I was, but I was a journalist. So I had a different relationship with them because I'm putting a mic in their faces when they first met me. So we've all sort of kind of come up the ranks together. Bartish is in that group as well. There's a lot. I mean I shouldn't start saying names because then you miss them.

Amy:

So I apologize, I'm just going to stop there and say et al, yeah, right now, which is very nice to see.

Melissa:

I mean looking up at Elizabeth Whitmer and Karen Redman, like there's so many great women. So I think, like I think as a when I look as a mentee, then some of them might even did not even know they mentored me, but I was watching them and understanding them and that's one of the things I often say to young women that are come that wants, they're so hungry to be leaders and they're not ready yet. But look, watch other female leaders and see what they do and then start to try to do it yourself. So as a mentor, I've now been involved in the WC mentorship circles for like from the beginning, I guess now, and I really love that, because one of my biggest struggles was in my 30s because my career was really starting to take off at CTV. But then you're at that point where if I'm going to have kids I have to actually have them, because I'm like looking down the barrel of 40 and I'm already in a geriatric pregnancy or whatever they call it, they freak you out right.

Melissa:

It's a horrible term, it's terrible. But so I think that was the hardest part of my career was having kids and then coming back, because you're a different person when you come back from pregnancy. Whether you want to be or not, you are a different human. And so, trying to figure out who Melissa Durrell was again, melissa Durrell was always a career woman. Now I'm Melissa Durrell and I'm a mother and a career woman. Now I'm Melissa Durrell and I'm a mother and a career woman, and that was really hard for me.

Melissa:

So I'm passionate about working with women in that age group because it was such a major struggle for me. So, you know, just even like confidence is so huge. We don't feel the same way. Our bodies have changed, no matter how hard you try, and some women are incredible, but like it does take a lot. I swear to God, I still joke about baby weight and my boy is 15 years old. So you know. So I do think there's that. That is to me one of the the I. It's one of the things I enjoy the most. That I get to do in my life is have my mentees, because they remind me of that time. Uh, hopefully I can give them good advice, and they're incredible women too. I'm just lucky to be a part of their lives. Most that's how I feel. Yeah, yeah, and they're. They all come back Like it's so great. Iwd, I get to see everybody again for certain events, so that's wonderful.

Amy:

I agree with the thirties comment. It is a difficult time where you have a lot going on and I don't know what you think about. If we, if we miss that mentorship window for women in their 30s, we probably are missing out on exceptional leaders when they get to their 40s and 50s. I think.

Melissa:

I was actually a panel I went to and that was one of the questions was how do we get more women? And they said it's that moment between 30 and 40 is when we see women drop out. Men don't and women do. So why are women not at that corporate table? Because in between 30 and 40, they, while the men, are still going up, the women aren't. I'm using my hands right now for everybody who's listening on this podcast. Yeah, give me a whiteboard, I will just whiteboard it out for everybody, for the listeners there. But and that has stuck with me so, so much because that I mean that's when my career blew up on me is. I had two kids. I was exhausted. I was, you know, working eight, nine, 10 hours a day on television, so it's not even like I could put a pair of Lululemon pants on and a ponytail.

Melissa:

I had to be makeup ready at noon and six o'clock every day and I was just done. And so I think, yeah, I look back at that time and I was really lucky. When we talk about mentors, my father has been a massive mentor in my life and that was really when I started to steer into business, and he had that advice for me as well, and so I was able to start a company, get past that five year ouch mark and then continue to grow it, and now it's 13 years old. So congratulations, yes, thank you. I feel really proud about that.

Amy:

Actually, you should be what's next then for the company.

Melissa:

For the company Well, I've got an amazing team right now. I say that every time people are like, how's your team? I'm like they're amazing. I love all my girls, you know, really, amy. Honestly, it's kind of taking myself a little bit more out of the company. So really working with my team, getting them into a leadership place and just looking at what is it like to maybe just steer the ship, instead of doing the dishes on the ship and cleaning this you know if I was good analogy?

Melissa:

Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm still really in the business and I've actually started a couple other businesses and so I think I that to me is really interesting. I love that startup phase where you start a new company. It's I love that. So I think I've that might be like my 50s are going to be about. You know, pulling myself back from the companies. I'm really in enabling and empowering my employees to be the ones to run it. And then maybe you know work, I do love angel investing.

Amy:

Can you tell us about some of the other companies you're involved with?

Melissa:

Well, so RGI is my other company, roseview Global Incubator, and so we are designated through the IRCC that's jargon. Immigration refugees, so it's the immigration arm of Canada. So they have a program called Startup Visa. We joke, it's SUV Startup Visa. You'll like that, schluter.

Melissa:

I will, and the really cool thing about it is if you've got a really great business idea, you can come to Canada and bring your business here, so you don't have to wait in sort of the traditional immigration lines. You can come straight in with your company into Canada. So the government this is actually a win If you don't know about this. The government doesn't know a lot about business. So they're like we're going to designate people or companies and RICs which would be like Communitech, those kinds of things to be the ones to say is this a really good company, and then we'll bring it in.

Melissa:

So I work with two other former angel investors that I met through G10, which is the angel group here locally, and so we started this company. So we've had, I think, well, gosh, we've got to be close to 100 companies we brought into Canada so far and they're amazing companies doing great things. Immigration Canada does have quite the lineup right now. So even if you can come to Canada through this SUV, you still need to wait for a permanent residency and last time I checked it's about a two-year wait list for that.

Melissa:

So, yeah, I mean the government has some good programs, but everything is really slow in this country right now. So that's an exciting company, because I really do love working with international entrepreneurs and I mean what better country to start a business than is Canada? So there's that one, and then I've got a couple angel investments as well. So those are exciting. Just tech companies and such. I won't get too many into them. I just actually had one that got bought out, so I'm now out of that one which is lovely yeah it's always nice to get an acquisition.

Amy:

I hear there's some building. Can you tell us about that?

Melissa:

Yeah, so started to work with my favorite planner when I worked at the city of Waterloo Awesome guy. So we've started a company recently as well and we're looking at getting into development. So I you know you can take the girl out of city hall, but not the yeah you know what I'm saying, and so I.

Melissa:

We're in a housing crisis. We really truly are, and it's simple economics demand and supply. So we need more supply in our market right now. That's the number one thing we need to be focused on, and it's not happening because of inflation. It is so expensive to build right now. So what are some of the things we can do? So I did find out like part of what I was. What I was doing was amplifying the issues that the development community was having to government so that they could understand what those issues are. I mean, we have been bogged down in legislation to make housing faster. Have you seen housing go faster? No, Right. So what's the problem here? So I think to me it's sort of one of those things, Amy, if you can't fix it, just try to do it and see like maybe that's it. So yeah, that's one of the things I'm starting to look at is coming in on the development side congrats.

Amy:

That's a, that's a big shift, I think, for you, I mean yeah, I guess it goes with all of your career you go from one thing to the next. But getting into development is a whole different. It is lots more risk right?

Melissa:

yeah, I think I. My husband is a little nervous about it because it has a lot of risk associated with it. But you know, I do think you know as a journalist you kind of you learn. I always say journalists make the best cocktail party people, because we know a little bit about everything. This I got it I have to get in depth on, and so it's been a huge learning curve and I'm nowhere near to shovels on the ground yet, but I hope in the next 12 months I will be Good for you.

Amy:

Well, we can't wait to see what happens with that. Thank you.

Melissa:

Yeah, it's like there's so many male dominated industries, we need some females in there.

Amy:

You keep picking them. I know Good for you what is wrong with me?

Melissa:

That's where you make. That's the power spaces You've got to get it that we need more women in, and if it takes one, we can bring more.

Amy:

Open the door up. The male-dominated industry is similar to politics. It requires patience and you run out and you need to take a break and maybe we can come back to it right.

Melissa:

So true, yeah, you know.

Amy:

Yes, I do so. In general, what do you think is next for women in leadership? More In general, what do you think is next for women in leadership?

Melissa:

More, more women in leadership. Easy question, amy. I think we have a lot of amazing women. We're Gen X, we're the ones running right now most of the corporate companies. We've got a couple of the late boomers still hanging on. But I think this is the best power position our generation is going to be in. And we were the women that were told we could do it. The boomers were told, you know, there was the outliers that really broke that ceiling for us. But it's been the Gen X or females that are the ones that are like okay, you did this and now we're going to own it.

Melissa:

We still have a heck of a way to go. We still, you know, get paid. I think it's 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. You know, it doesn't take long to look at corporate boards to know that they're still very male dominated. Most CEOs are men, most CAOs are men. So, yes, we've got work to do, but we're closer. So it's this next generation and they actually make me a little bit nervous I'm not going to lie, because they're a little bit more entitled than we were. Like we still had that fight, the Gen X where we had, we fought. Like I literally sometimes will come home at night and be like I'm so tired of fighting. I don't have you ever felt that way too.

Melissa:

I wonder how many women you interview that like in those quiet moments where we say, like, why are we doing this? It's exhausting. And I think this next gen coming up behind us. They didn't have it the same way. They've been told that.

Melissa:

You know, when you look at universities, mba programs, engineering programs, you're starting to see law programs it's 50-50. Doctors 50-50. So we're seeing it and they're being academically, they're being educated at a way we never were. So you know, the Gen Zs, whatever we're calling them, but they need to earn it and that's the one thing that frightens me about them is they're asking and they're entitled, and I worry that that's going to be an issue for us as we try to see equality and ask for equity. That said, I think diversity is really important as well, and that is something I think we're really starting to see. I mean, with our immigration, it's just happening naturally. But I want those millennials to know that they are going to be amazing leaders, but they need to work for it. They can't just take it. You can't be 22 and asking to be a manager. That's ridiculous. That happens to me on the regular.

Amy:

Oh yeah.

Melissa:

So interesting. Yeah, and I think that's the thing that makes me nervous is, yeah, I don't know what that's going to look like on this generation, but I think, gen X, we got to continue to fight and I hope those millennials will back us up.

Amy:

Well, thank you. All of your stories and all of your advice and all of your insight was very helpful.

Melissa:

It's very inspiring.

Amy:

Thank you for being here.

Melissa:

It was great.

Amy:

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Amy Schlueter

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