Voices of Leadership: Insights and Inspirations from Women Leaders

Part One of Bragging Rights: How to Talk about Your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion with Lisa Bragg

• Bespoke Projects • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Are you tired of feeling like your hard work and achievements go unnoticed?

Do you struggle with self-promotion and feel like you're not being seen or heard in your industry?

On today's episode, we talk with  Lisa Bragg, author of the book Bragging Rights: How to Talk about Your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion. Lisa is a renowned speaker, advisor, and professional mentor who helps high-achievers to share their value with the world.

We had so much to talk about that we divided our conversation into two episodes. In Part One we talk about Lisa's experience writing the book, the true definition of bragging and we learn what a Hidden Gem is.

If you want to learn how to brag, this is a great place to start

Connect with Lisa
Website
LinkedIn
Instagram

Resources
TEDWomen 2023
MediaFace
Kristen Pressner - The Flip Test
Dr. Rumeet Billan - Tall Poppy Syndrome
Charlie Bit My Finger

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LIsa:

I'm going to tell 25 people about this. One success thing that I really want people to know because we think we can only tell it once to one person and then that's too much. We need to actually tell it again, and again, and again, and again. So I think that's really critical is to be intentional about what it is that you want to say and why you want to say it, and so it allows us to then scaffold to where we want to go, because we always need to market to our future selves.

Amy:

Welcome to Voices of Leadership, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the remarkable women of the International Women's Forum who are reshaping industries, defying norms and being instigators of change. I'm your host, amy, and I'm inviting you on a journey through the minds of trailblazers. Each episode is a candid conversation with women leaders from across a variety of industries and sectors. Through these conversations, we aim to ignite a fire of inspiration within you, whether you're a budding leader, a seasoned executive or simply someone with a passion for growth. Do you struggle with self-promotion and feel like you're not being seen and heard? On today's episode, we welcome Lisa Bragg, author of Bragging Rights how to talk about your work using purposeful self-promotion.

Amy:

We had so much to talk about that we divided our conversation into two episodes. In part one, lisa challenges our traditional definition of bragging and we talk about what a hidden gem is and how to be intentional about self-promotion. If you want to learn how to brag, this is a great place to start. Hi, lisa, welcome to the podcast. Hi, lovely to be here. It's really nice to meet you. So I'll just say that we've never met and we connected through the back end of IWF Canada's new website. So, before we get started, I'd like to have a little shout out to Sarah Shortread, an IWF member, who spearheaded the project, and it was great. It easy to use and it was easy for us to connect.

LIsa:

I love it because you know what that's what it's about. How do we connect more to actually build great relationships?

Amy:

So kudos to all involved and you're a member in the Toronto chapter of IWF.

LIsa:

I am. I'm a new member.

Amy:

A new member, well welcome. Have you been to any events yet I?

LIsa:

sure have. I'm one of those people. If I join, I'm joining and I'm involved. So I've been to a few things, including a dine around and several different gatherings, so it's been a lot of fun.

Amy:

So far so good. That was going to be my question if you've been to a dine around, because they are a lot of fun. Oh so much. Yeah, so you are the author of the book Bragging Rights how to Talk About your Work Using Purposeful Self Promotion. I really enjoyed your book, thank you, and I want to talk about your writing journey and I have a bunch of questions about all the topics you covered. But before we get started, I'd like to clarify the definition of bragging. You define bragging and all its derivatives as talking about your successes and accomplishments in a positive way. You note that in the 1300s, bragging actually meant brave and spirited and not boastful, and the German and Dutch definitions include words like shine and shimmer. Now this isn't the common definition today, so can you talk to us about why you're trying to bring the term bragging back to its original definition?

LIsa:

Yeah, because far too many of us, I'm sure, are. You know, we've either been told this or we've told our own teams this Put your head down, do good work and eventually someone will notice you. And so we're taught to not talk about our successes, and that leads to us then having to do more work so that somebody else will see us and talk about our successes, so we can get those promotions or opportunities that we already deserve, not even desire. We already deserve them because we're already A team players, we're already at our best, but we feel like we have to wait for someone because we've been told that bragging is taboo, and that's where we have to really understand that bragging is talking about your success with pride, and pride is also justified self-love. So justified self-love is the reason why we need to give ourselves the pat on the back and wave our flag and let people know that we're here.

LIsa:

I think the challenge is the confusion with the word, the term self-aggrandizement, and that's the puffery, the ickiness that we see everywhere that I'm better than you and only one person can win. That's self-aggrandizement. That's the Instagram that I'm standing in front of my yacht or my jet, and you know it's not mine, but we feel that with it. But when we do see someone who's standing in front of their corporation that's just landed a billion dollar deal or a hundred million dollar deal, but we've seen her have moments along the way Then we know it's true and we feel a success. We want to hear more about success and we want to cheer her on more, but it's the self-aggrandizement that's the turnoff. And so when we make that switch to see justified self-love how I'm here of service to the world is really what it's about Then I'm able to talk about my successes without feeling that ickiness.

Amy:

So for today's conversation, we'll be clear that when we say bragging or bragging and otherwise, we are talking about self-love and not self-aggrandizing. Yeah, that's great, perfect. So what prompted you to write the book and what was that experience like?

LIsa:

Well, you know, it's a journey. My last name is Bragg, it was, it's all my birth certificate.

Amy:

So, weird.

LIsa:

You know, I struggled with it for a while when I was about a 13th, 14 year old the age my daughter is now I felt people would say, oh, when I was you know, I'm one of the part those people I'm raising my hand I, you know, one of the gold stars. I wanted 99%. What do you mean? I didn't get 100%, I wanted success. I wanted it because that was the way I understood it back then, and so I played the game. I wanted to have those high marks and I realized that when I had success, even at a young age, people would roll their eyes oh, you're gonna brag about it. So I started to not tell everyone all the things I was doing. I had lots of side things going on that I wanted to do, but I wouldn't tell anyone, and so I thought that was interesting.

LIsa:

And then I became a broadcast journalist and I'd go around to all these successful people and say, hey, I think you should be on camera, you're the expert, I want to interview you about this. And so often she would say, oh, who me? No, no, no, go down the street. And I remember there's a few times, because I know you're in Kitchener and Waterloo and I work there and there's so many people at the universities oh no, go down the go down the hall, you know so. And so he's done it more and it's like okay to also have Peter John, but why don't I also have you? And so I get to coach people right there on the spot and say, let me help you, I'm gonna you know this isn't gonna be a gotcha interview and then I would see her get more opportunities and maybe she'd go off and get a new job and so many things would happen by allowing herself to be on camera.

LIsa:

And then I started a company media face which was content when a candidate is first doing video animation, e-learning, social media and again would work with subject matter experts within corporate and they'd say, lisa, I see what's happening with our subject matter experts, can you help me? But you know people would say Isn't that, then, just telling people to get on social media? But that's not the, that's not the thing, because otherwise, if it was just get on social media, we would all be rock stars and everyone would. It'd be so loud. But it's not about that.

LIsa:

Unfortunately, so many of us have all these layers of what keeps us, what's what holds us back with talking about our successes, and we don't all necessarily need the audience of the world to do the good that we want to do in the world. It might be just that we need that one person somewhere else to get us that board position, to help us land that billion dollar client or to really make that relationship that we want to have in our personal lives. And so it's it's. All of us have different goals on what we want to do, but it's all of it is how we are of service to each other.

Amy:

It sounds like it was quite a journey from teenager to book. It's a lot, it's good. It's like a combination of of all your experiences.

LIsa:

And there's definitely a red thread that when I stopped and like, why am I doing this? Because it's a bit of I'm going to be honest, it's it's a bit of self torture to write a book. It's like, why am I doing? There were many of the to my husband and daughter why am I doing this? Why am I taking the time out to do it? But you know, the struggle of it helps you really hone in. I call it my commercial PhD. I didn't get a PhD in an institution, but I have my commercial PhD by writing this body of work and doing international research to to make it happen. But happy to always talk to anyone who wants to go to the journey. I do think it is worth it because for some reason, that little voice in the back of my head would not stop until I had it done. So that's, that's part of the journey to. But I also had so many people supporting me along the way, so I'm so grateful for that.

Amy:

So let's get into the book, because I have a lot of questions. So let's start with hidden gem. You talk a lot about hidden gems in the book and how everything you talk about helps them or us, I guess learn to be seen and heard. So tell us what a hidden gem is and how you define it and how the book sort of helps them come to the forefront.

LIsa:

Well, so many of us are hidden gems. You've read the book. Do you think you're hidden gem, or were you hidden gem at one point?

Amy:

Oh yeah, I think so, definitely because I am with you. I mean, I went to school in the in the era of perfection. I mean, I don't know that it's necessarily gone today, which is some of the issues, but you know, always wanting to do perfect, and if you got 100%, then you were recognized, and so why didn't that, of course, transferred to the workplace? If I did the job, it would be recognized. Why would I have to do anything else? I started in a very male dominated industry and automotive, and I thought my work would stand for itself and it didn't, because there were all the other hallways and pathways where work was getting done that I was not party to. So definitely thought that as well.

LIsa:

Yeah. So I mean you just pretty much gave what it is the hidden gems, which is great, and you identified it. I bet so many people who are listening are saying, oh yeah, that's me or was me, or I have so many of those people on my teams and that's when I get hired is to help teams and individuals. But a lot of teams to say how do we make sure that our hidden gems are being seen? So hidden gems, are those probably rock star? You know those people that are just so amazing on your team that they need to be seen and heard in some way and maybe they don't want the spotlight because not all of us want to be out front, but how do they communicate their value to the team, to the future clients, to potential employees? Like, how do we help them to showcase that they're awesome?

LIsa:

And so many of us again taught put your head down, do good work, someone else will notice you. And if you were that good, your work would speak for itself. And those things keep so many of us hidden and quiet and waiting for other people and in my research, if I led to for so many people burnout because you're not just trying to do your job. You're trying to work at 120%, 130%, because it's never good enough, because people aren't talking to you and saying hey, you know you're doing a good job. And it's not about validation, it's really about it's beyond the validation part. We need to give our own ourselves validation.

LIsa:

Credit, though, goes where credit knows, and so we need to be able to take credit for things, and I think we're really in an era where we do need to have Self advocacy, and so a lot of your hidden gems. They're not bolstered and supported to talk about their successes, so how do we help them to do that? And it's not just that we want them to. You know, say hey, world, here's how I stand out. But it's about Standing out, fitting in, and then also, how do I add in my genius that adds to an environment where that may be? So how do I add in my own perspective, my cultural perspective, my national perspective, my expertise, expertise, how do I add in that genius that I have and whatever ways it is? So there's a big part of it. For hidden gems. A lot of people leave because they're not seen and they're not heard, and it's fundamental to the human condition to be seen and heard. And do you?

Amy:

think sometimes those working to be seen and heard, the people watching the leaders, assume that they just want the leadership and front position, without acknowledging that being seen and heard means I'm just trying to advance my personal career path and that doesn't mean that it's at the very front just means this is what I want to do, but you're not seeing me on that yeah, so many leaders.

LIsa:

They don't get it. They only see the people that are, you know, beating their chests and shmoozing and going out to cocktails after hours. They don't see the people who are behind the scenes, maybe doing all the real work, lifting it up, but then say, well, there's no I in team, so I'm not gonna ask for credit, I'm gonna give all the credit away, and so the credit goes to the person who's always had the credit, and that's unfortunate and there's been a lot of research done on that. So you know, I know we were always a team, we're in a team environment. We don't take credit, but actually you know what humans do, and so when we say that our team, they just share the credit.

LIsa:

I know what if it came down to when we're not an abundance mindset and lots of jobs are around, yes, we're like that. But when it comes down to a scarcity mindset, we're looking around, people aren't in the office and we're saying I haven't heard from her in a long time. We probably don't need her. Meanwhile, she's actually the backbone of your whole operation. But you didn't know that and that's happened to a few people that I know where they let go the quiet person who wasn't advocating for herself, didn't realize actually how much she was actually carrying that whole team Because she works from home and that's okay.

LIsa:

To work from home, remote, is great, but you still have to advocate and so many people that I get in corporate to they think, well, I don't want a promotion, I don't, I just want to stay where I am. The challenge with that is that we still have to talk about our successes because the environment is changing so fast. People need to know how, what you're doing, how you're here to serve, so that they know where you fit in into the bigger picture that you don't even know is happening right now with mergers and acquisitions or layoffs and all those things. So it's part of protection for your, your own career, no matter where that is, and it's not just about people who are in middle management or vice presidents or ceo. Is it really the long term continuum of being a productive person in this world?

Amy:

And you talk a little bit about sort of the how to. So you talk about having a point of view and having pillars to help stay focused when you're bragging. Talk to us a little bit about how that's important when you're trying to have self love and promote what you've been doing.

LIsa:

I know that you do. You remember the time when you go in your kids you're talking to another parent and then that parent just left soft all the things that Tommy, this must have been when they were a little like. You know, tommy is walking and eating and doing all these things and Tommy did it, did it, did it, did it, did it. The list is not a good thing. So you want to be intentional about why you're talking about your successes. You know, I think you need to talk we all need to talk about a lot more but when you do it with intention, that takes the ease of it, that allows you to say here's why I'm really talking about this. I'm gonna tell 25 people about this one success thing that I really want people to know, because we think we can only tell it once to one person and then that's too much. We need to actually tell it again and again and again and again. So I think that's really critical is to be intentional about what it is that you want to say and why you want to say it. So, yes, I want to tell people that I landed this big client, because then it allows them to see themselves in the same vein as that big client, or because then I'll know that I'm able to handle those kind of accounts, or then because they know that I'm gonna take really good care of them as my client, because I've been there, done that, and so it allows us to then scaffold to what where we want to go, because we always need to market to our future selves, where so many of us good girls, you know we want to really think about our reputation in the past and not connect the dots for people. So we have a reputation. It's already good, it's great. Really, where we want to market to is where we want to go and knowing that we're on solid footing because of all the great things we've done.

LIsa:

But where do you want to go? And that's where having intention again says here's where I'm going and here's how all those experiences that connect to the future me and we're not making all these lateral moves that so many people do. Where I have to have I'm gonna use sports 110% of that job, where a lot of men will make a move when they have 3540% and again, research has been done on that and it's because they often go on the promise of themselves, the promise of I can. I bet I can do that, instead of us saying I have all the research, all literature, all the certificates. There's no way if says or but I have that, all of it. And that just doesn't work that way for us. We need to go in on a. I'm betting on myself because I'm gonna bet on you. I'm gonna bet you're already awesome with it.

Amy:

And are you comfortable sharing your point of view and pillars with us?

LIsa:

Yeah, so go. Thank you for that, yeah, well, so my point of view is that and you know what they can change to, so it's not something that you have to have for the next. You know you need to keep in the line, especially for your own social media 6 to 18 months keeping the same idea going, because that's where it takes traction, where I said to you you know when my pillars is really about all of us need to be seen and heard. But then tomorrow I'm gonna say to you well, now it's about all of us should wear the color red, like that's confusing to your audience, and so really what I want to do is put it out there, and then I have to put it out there again and again and again. The same Pillar, because so many of us think that we need to talk about so many different things to be interesting.

LIsa:

But actually, when you see people who are very successful, they're successful and they have depth in one area. So I'm known For helping people to talk about their successes, to help people brag, you know. So that's easy for them to say, ah, we will hire Lisa for that, and so it's really talking about success. So successes I really want. So bragging Storytelling. I'm really about storytelling.

LIsa:

And how do we do storytelling for our own marketing sales, and then how does it translate to our organizational perspective? That is not just me telling my stories, but when I talk about my successes, that also makes the organization I'm part of look really good to, and I kind of mentioned this already. Because they look good, I can attract more clients. There's a halo effect. I can also bring in more awesome employees because I'm gonna attract more of the same fit, because we see have the same values. So that's a big part of it too is that we're gonna attract similar people, and so when we have a point of view, that really means I stand for something.

LIsa:

We're seeing that more and more with organizations where we have to say here, my values bit tricky. So that's why sometimes I come in and help, because how do you talk about your values in a world where we have different values but we use psychographics to say here's our commonalities. We have things in common. Well, our workplace might seem very challenging because we're all very different. Right now there are things that we have in common, that we can build and have a common story, and storytelling bridges on so many levels and it bridges in playing engagement. So those are the big things that a part of my heart and mind right now, but I go through a few of them in the book to have how to first discover your point of view and think about it. But also a few other people who shared their stories with me.

Amy:

Yeah, there's some great stories in the book Thank you, which I recommend everybody reading because the stories are fantastic, but I'd like to hear a couple of your stories. So you talk about being bold or not being bold, so is there a time you wish you had been bolder?

LIsa:

Yeah, there's so many times, you know, and actually just one recently I was on a TV show and then the next week I was on another TV show and I'm kicking myself because I didn't follow my own advice, because I am my book.

LIsa:

I am a hidden gem. You know, while I love to be on camera and my background as a journalist back in my day as a journalist, I was not part of the story. I would present the story and present the facts, but I wasn't always interjecting. It's not like the columnist, the opinion based work, that world that we're in now. So I am a hidden gem. My tendency is to. I would love you to find me on my piece of the Internet and just buy my book and hire me, but that's not the way it works. You know, there's so many of us right now, so I have to put my shingle out and tell you hey, here's where to go and here's how to use me. So the story is, you know. So I was on media back to back. Well, I haven't shared my second piece of media because I felt it was too much and I wish I'm like. Why would I do that? So now I have to write a story about not being and standing in that power that I have the graciousness of being a of the people that brought me into the show. First of all, so I'm a I was a bad guest and usually I'm a great guest, but also that I'm not owning it, and this is part of my power. Why wouldn't I own it and share it right away? So I wish I was bolder just a few weeks ago to share it back to back and say, hey, here's a big splash of what I'm doing.

LIsa:

So many of us are featured in blog posts, on podcasts and on in media, and then we don't do anything about it. I tell a story of somebody who was featured in Cosmo. She just tucked it away. You know why do we do that? And we do it because we're afraid of overwhelming our audiences with being seen in her. No, no, no, no. We need to be bold and put it out there. And so it's. I have to say, well, lisa, it's steps of courage, right, I have to take one step and then have another step and have another step, and know that it's sometimes it's fear plus 10%, standing at the edge saying, okay, I'm going to post this and I'm going to post this and I'm going to post this and letting people know, because not everyone watches the same shows or tunes in, so that's why we have to put it out there again and again. So there's been lots of times.

LIsa:

You know, I was one of the early people to who haven't had a YouTube channel and I did not do anything with it. I wish I'd been bold. I even had a painted green screen in my basement way back in the day this was like 2007, but I wasn't bold enough to go and do it. I had the inclination, I had the idea, I knew what it was going to do, but I didn't take the follow through. And I think anyone who started something in 2007, we all remember Charlie bit my finger right If you haven't seen that, because you're just go look that up, but it's one of the first things on YouTube way. In the future they'll look back and see Charlie bit my finger. I wasn't going to put content out like that, but you know, starting early is a good idea, but I still believe you have to start today on whatever it is that you, however, you want to be seen and heard, and it doesn't have to be social media, it just has to be the way that you fit and where your audience is, too.

Amy:

I like your story because it's recent and I think that that's part of it too is that learning to be seen and heard isn't an end game. It's probably an evolution and it's probably ongoing and we'll never get to the end of being comfortable doing it or remembering to do it and things like that.

LIsa:

Yeah you have to keep going and that's where you know my book here this is one of this is I'm showing it. If you're just listening to it, it has all these tabs in it and so it's helpful when I'm doing podcasts and shows to have it there. But I love seeing the book torn apart by people who are using it. They're posting it and it makes my day because they know there's so many valuable lessons, but they also know that they're going to come back to it.

LIsa:

I think that's the value in the book is that you will come back to it, especially on those times where you you know you might be thinking, ok, I'm done being the CEO, what am I gonna do now? And then you come back to the book and say, well, this is part of how I get a board position, this is how I get that next level client, and it's in here the tips and the tools of how to do that. I think that's where it's good to have a book that's actually really beaten up and loved and underlined and highlighted, and you know you're dogged in the whole bit. So I love seeing the book all the mess by people really appreciating it.

Amy:

I love all books like that, those that my books look like that, so it's my favorite type of book.

LIsa:

Yeah, you're soul sisters right here.

Amy:

So one of the things I really liked in the book is you call it imposter experience versus syndrome, and I really enjoyed that. It resonated with me. So tell us a little bit about that and how can women overcome these feelings and gain confidence to succeed?

LIsa:

Yeah, so even the people who came up with the idea of imposter syndrome, which they had called it, somewhere out something else. So I call it imposter experience because I believe, in this era that we're in now, we're always going to have it. So it's like an S curve. So we, you know, we think, okay, I'm going to try something new. We got to go down. And then we climb up the S thing. Oh, no, I know exactly what I'm doing. And then it's like no, no, no, no, no, no. Then I realized that actually don't know what I'm doing because, well, we're all here based on the shoulders of giants. And then we realized that, oh yeah, no, I don't know what I'm doing. And then we fall down and we're down in that that pit, that valley, and then we realize, oh yes, I do know what I'm doing. And we have mastery again. And then all of us think about it.

LIsa:

Do you not jump to the next thing once you actually accomplish, master something? Okay, I've been here, I've done this for two or three years, five years, six months, whatever it is, and then you jump again. Where are you? We're not that long ago, our parents, our grandparents would stay in the same role for 30, 40 years, or they were on the farm, because we're not that far off of being farmers, you know. So that's why we have, we're experiencing these things that might not have been passed down to you, because your parents had the same job for 35 years or they switched twice.

LIsa:

Now so many of us are going from you know corporate jobs to maybe we're being an entrepreneur for a little while and then we're, then we're consulting, and somebody brings us up, and then we have this new, new job for 35 years, and then we have that new job for a while, and then we have this job for 30 years, and then you know we're doing this for a living. And then, when we've had a lot of other jobs, we're doing this for a living. And then we have to start working in in in the house and it's great. Then we want to work at an NGO, Then somehow we get scooped up and we're working in government, and then then we put out our shingle again and we start something else. Or before, you're in one sector and one thing only, and that forever it will, shall be.

LIsa:

And I'm not one on faking it to you make it. I think that we know we're faking it. I think we just say I don't know what I don't know, and when we're honest with each other about that I love that about women coming together and it's like I don't know about this. I've never done this before Like, what is it? It's like when you see the 25 or 35 pieces of cutlery on the table and you're like, okay, what is that one for? That's a very simple way of thinking about it, but sometimes there's a lot there, and how do you break it down?

Amy:

Thank you for listening to part one of my conversation with Lisa. Lisa and I had so much to talk about that we divided our conversation into two episodes. Please join us on the next episode for part two. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and subscribe to our podcast. When you do this, it raises our podcast profile so more leaders can find us and be inspired by the stories our voices of leadership have to share. If you would like to connect with us, please visit the Voices of Leadership website. It can be found in our show notes.

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