Voices of Leadership: Insights and Inspirations from Women Leaders

Beyond Books: Melanie Rodriguez on Leadership, Literacy, Building Community Partnerships and the IWF Fellowship Program

• Bespoke Projects • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode, we welcome Melanie Rodriguez, Director of Corporate Partnerships with the Toronto Public Library Foundation. Melanie shares insights from her experience with the IWF Fellowship and emphasizes the importance of the continuous pursuit of learning and seizing opportunities for career pivots. We also discuss the importance of mentorship and the challenges facing female leaders today.

Melanie talks about her passion for education and literacy and ensuring children have access to quality education. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the power of education and the impact of strategic partnerships in creating equitable access to opportunity.

Connect with Melanie.
LinkedIn

Resources
Toronto Public Library
IWF Fellowship
The Judy Project
Institute of Southern Georgian Bay
Hoot Reading

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Melanie:

You know, my passion is really about improving equal access to opportunity, and to me, a huge part of that is education. Education is such a gift that we take for granted, especially here in Canada, and so, having worked in other countries and other places where this gift isn't just granted, I think we have so much work to do and I think there's so much potential. But I really do think it's about cross sector collaboration.

Amy:

Welcome to Voices of Leadership, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the remarkable women of the International Women's Forum who are reshaping industries, defying norms and being instigators of change. I'm your host, amy, and I'm inviting you on a journey through the minds of trailblazers. Each episode is a candid conversation with women leaders from across a variety of industries and sectors. Through these conversations, we aim to ignite a fire of inspiration within you, whether you're a budding leader, a seasoned executive or simply someone with a passion for growth. On today's episode, we welcome Melanie Rodriguez. Melanie is currently the Director of Corporate Partnerships with the Toronto Public Library. We talk about our mutual love of reading and how the library has changed over the years.

Amy:

Melanie is also an IWF fellow. She completed a year long program in conjunction with Harvard and Insiet Business School, which brings together young women from around the world to learn together and be mentored by current IWF members. Melanie shares stories of the lessons she learned and the connections she's made through this opportunity. Welcome, melanie, it's so nice to meet you. Thank you, amy. I'm so happy to be here. We're thrilled you're on the show. You're talking to us from Toronto, correct? I am, and you're a member of the Toronto IWF chapter.

Melanie:

So I'm actually a recent IWF fellow, so I just graduated, in June, from the Global Fellowship.

Amy:

Yes, so do fellows have to be members of IWF or not necessarily?

Melanie:

It's actually the reverse. Fellows cannot be members of IWF because the idea of the fellowship is to help women move into roles that would then transition them into becoming a member.

Amy:

Well, I didn't know that, so now I've learned something. I had a whole bunch of questions about the fellowship, so why don't we just start there? So, as you said, you are an IWF fellow and you've completed a program through Harvard University. What was your motivation to apply and what was that process like?

Melanie:

It is an amazing life-changing experience. From day one, I would say, my motivation to apply was really about being able to discover how to make a bigger impact in the world. I think when I had kids, I almost got stuck in a sense of I knew what my mission was, but I wasn't sure how I wanted to achieve it, and so the fellowship was just this incredible learning opportunity to be able to meet other change makers and leaders and to really explore how to gather the tools, network and also understanding and strategy of how to make a bigger change.

Amy:

So how did you hear about the program then?

Melanie:

I was really lucky. So a lady, nancy Griffin, reached out to me from a newspaper article in my local newspaper and asked me to meet with her. I spoke at one of her events and she said you need to do this fellowship. I'd never heard of it before, never dreamed of anything, honestly, as amazing as this fellowship. And that was really what started the process. The first year I didn't get in, and so then I reapplied a couple of years later and was able to get into the fellowship and haven't looked back since.

Amy:

Wow, that's amazing. So now that you're done, are you a member of IWF, or does that not part of it at all?

Melanie:

So normally you have. The rule is you have to wait two years after graduating to become a member In some chapters. I knew that does change. Some people have to become members right away, but I haven't moved into that territory just yet.

Amy:

So it was at Harvard and you have to go to Harvard and be on campus, is that correct?

Melanie:

Yes, so there's actually three parts. So the first part is the IWF International Conference, so ours was at in Las Vegas, and so we meet before to do an orientation, and then the second part is at NCOD in France, and then the third part, which is where the graduation was, was at Harvard. So all of them in person, and then you have virtual activities throughout the year as well.

Amy:

So what were you doing in France then after the conference? I?

Melanie:

would say France at NCOD is more about reflection, so you do learn tools, so you do classes during the day, but you also have an executive coach and a board of advisors which is made with other fellows and you do a 360 degree feedback to really understand what are your strengths, what are your weaknesses, what do you need to improve. And so NCOD is really about making sure you're aligned with your strengths, with your goals, but also with your personal values and mission.

Amy:

Wow, that's quite a process. What did you learn from that? A?

Melanie:

lot it. Honestly, I think going I can imagine I think going in I was like I know my mission, I'm going to be great at this, I'm right on track. And then we went through this exercise with my board of advisors and the executive coach says how does this make you feel hearing Melanie's story? And typically when I share my story people say, oh, it's uplifting, it's great. And their response, their words, were this is sad. And it was the first time in my life that I realized like I thought I was so connected to everything I wanted, but in reality, on the surface level, everything checked off, but beneath the surface there was this huge disconnect and I was really burnt out and not moving towards my goals at the rate I should have. And that was the first time I realized that. And so it really forced me to do a lot more reflection after the experience. And then eventually I ended up switching careers and I am just so much happier and more aligned with everything ever since.

Amy:

Wow, and how long was the program? Is it a year, or is it longer?

Melanie:

It's a year. It's a year. Yeah, it's a year long process, and you also got a mentor throughout the year, so that also helps you as you move along.

Amy:

And is your mentor an IWF member?

Melanie:

They are, and so it's really. It's really interesting because they take all your information from your application and try to find someone who they think is best suited for you. And so mine was actually in a different sector, which I ended up moving towards the nonprofit sector, so it's almost like IWF knew me better than I knew myself at the time of applications.

Amy:

Fantastic, that is so nice. I love that. That's wonderful that you had a mentor the whole way through. And again, obviously I don't know enough about the program, but is the application open to anyone, or any woman, I gather? Are there any restrictions? Or tell us a little bit about who could apply, if they listen and something that they're interested in.

Melanie:

Sure, so the application anyone can apply to. There are organizations, though, who will nominate. So if, let's say, you work at Accenture, you work at NASA, like there are other organizations where, rather than having everyone apply, they internally source candidates, which is pretty neat. I applied individually, which is just through the portal. You do typically have someone recommend you in, so there would be a previous IWF fellow and IWF member who recommends you for the program. What they're looking for is, from what I've heard, is that they're looking for a where you're progressing in your career. So most people I was a bit of the exception to the rule, I would say most people had about 10 to 15 years experience above where I was at in my career. So they're looking for individuals who are within five years of the C-suite. So some people were CEOs, some people were just about to become CEOs, but that's really their goal is to help women go over that last hurdle to move into executive roles.

Amy:

Okay, Well, that's fantastic. That's wonderful. I've always heard about it and always read about it. I was fascinated to learn so much more about it. I'm sure you learned so much and met so many interesting people. Can you give us a highlight? What was one of the more interesting or valuable lessons that you learned in this process?

Melanie:

So you learn a lot of practical tools like cross-cultural communication tons of stuff at Harvard but I would say the most useful one for me was being able to be in a room of women, primarily mothers, who were 10 to 15 years ahead of me in their life.

Melanie:

So I think when I joined the program, my daughter was one, my son was four, and I was really overwhelmed and not I don't think there's such thing as balance, but in terms of burnout I was at such a high rate of burnout. So being able to meet with women who had already tackled all of the challenges I was currently facing and to hear their advice genuinely changed the way I live, the way I work, the way I parent, and that is something that is going to help me for the next 20 years. So that, to me, was the biggest highlight is creating these lifelong friendships, but also having role models to help you navigate career and motherhood at the same time. But I know for every fellow it would be a very different experience and maybe that it's more focused on their career or more focused on their impact that they're working on.

Amy:

Those are valuable lessons to see other people do it before you. You mentioned a lot about career and how this process changed your trajectory a little bit, but from what I've read, the majority of your volunteer work, your board work and your career has revolved around literacy, which is something I'm quite passionate about. So why don't we start with your current position with the Toronto Library? You recently joined the Toronto Public Library Foundation as a Director of Corporate Partnership. Can you tell us a bit about your new job?

Melanie:

Sure, so my role at the foundation, which I absolutely love, is being able to build strategic partnerships between corporations and the library. What most people don't know is the Toronto Public Library is the busiest library system in the entire world, so we are a global leader on so many different fronts. We deliver over 19,000 programs every year. We serve over two-thirds of Torontonians, so my job is to be able to look at all of the amazing impact that the library is doing and then saying how does this align with the corporations either corporate social responsibility goals, or sometimes it can be aligning with their business goals. So is there an opportunity to do a sponsorship where you're reaching your target audience while also making an incredible impact in the community?

Amy:

So I'm going to date myself a little bit, but I love the library. I spent a lot of time in the library in school. The reference library was a place that I spent a lot of time at and we needed it to find information. I had a photocopy card. I had to find the books and all of those things. A lot has obviously changed, so how is the library used now?

Melanie:

That is such a great question because I think most people when they think of the library, they think of books, and 100 percent that is what we do. But I would say the library is the connector. That's how I like to think of it. The library connects community members with resources, with programs, with services. So we do everything from one-to-one financial counseling for community members to mental health supports, to a musical lending library.

Melanie:

There are so many different aspects and I think what it really comes down to is the library is one of the last free places that people can go to, whether it's to learn, whether it's to connect. And when we think about the recent reports, right now Toronto Foundation came out with a report and it was that Toronto is the loneliest city in Canada. 40 percent of people are extremely lonely. And then you also have these health reports coming out saying actually, the key to healthy years is not your diet or exercise, it's the amount of positive connections you have. I think the role of the library is becoming more important now than ever because it is that connector, it's like a community hub in all these different neighborhoods across Toronto.

Amy:

It's interesting to see how it changed, but yet it's still so important. What I really want to know now, though, is I think you can talk and eat in the library. Is that right? It is true, yes.

Melanie:

And there's so many fun events that you think sometimes we think of programs and services, for there are so many that address very specific needs, but there are also a lot that are just fun and ways to get to know other community members. They had one and it was a parade and it was to learn about the environment, and they had all these activities for kids and they have activities for adults, and so I think the library is just always growing and expanding its impact in so many ways to bring community members together.

Amy:

I spent a lot of time at the library as a young mother as well. There were so many great programs for young kids and what a great place for them to explore and learn about books and programs and all of those things. So I have used it outside of school as well.

Melanie:

Definitely.

Amy:

So what are your goals, then, in this new job? You talked about partnerships and you talked about sponsorships. Is there an open and willingness of these corporations to support the library and be a part of the community in that way?

Melanie:

Yes, I think you know I'm obviously biased in this, but I think corporations have so much potential to make strategic partnerships I think everyone. I think when we look at the younger generations, each younger generation is more and more. I don't know if caring is the right word versus prioritizing, but they really are prioritizing purpose-led companies. And so I think corporations there's two different buckets. There's the bucket of giving to the library is just an amazing thing to do because it builds safer communities that you operate in. So there's that benefit there. But then there's also the benefit of by aligning your money with your values, you're also becoming more appealing to younger generations, who are also going to be your target customer. So to me, there's so many benefits to corporations, above the fact that there are also just amazing CSR managers who wanna make an impact in the world. So you add that layer on top and it just seems like a really great opportunity for more corporations to come on board.

Amy:

I agree. It's a good place to support the community. Now, before you got to the library, you were still involved in literacy, and I'm actually very curious about Hoot Reading, and my research tells me that it's an online tutoring program. Is that correct?

Melanie:

It is so. It's founded by two incredible mothers. It's a social enterprise, and so they connect children with qualified teachers for one-on-one reading supports, and so it's a one-on-one. They have an online platform and they really are just trying to change children's lives through literacy, because there is a huge literacy crisis that many people don't know what happened long before the pandemic, and so they're just trying to take evidence-based ways to teach literacy and make it more accessible, regardless of where you live. So you could be in a rural community that doesn't have access necessarily to an in-person session, or you could just be a busy parent like myself who doesn't have time to pick up my kid, drop them off at a tutoring session, come back, so now my kid can just sit at the table and do a tutoring lesson with the teacher the same teacher every week to help kind of overcome some of the literacy challenges. So incredible company that I think is making really big waves with families across North America.

Amy:

So can you talk to us a little bit about the literacy crisis or challenges, because I think that often people think literacy comes from, sometimes challenges like dyslexia, big things that have a label, and don't always realize that there is a literacy. Challenges with kids who aren't diagnosed with anything or who don't have some label attached them. It's just a challenge for them to read.

Melanie:

Yeah. So I'm going to use pre-pandemic numbers because I think every year the numbers are getting worse and it's honestly hard to keep track of them. But even before the pandemic, if you looked at students in grade four in Canada and the US, over two thirds of them were reading below their grade level. And the reason why I'm not an educator, but the reason why educators tend to focus on grade four, is because that's when the curriculum moves from learning to read to reading to learn. So if you're reading below grade level in grade four, that is when you start seeing the drop across all the other grades, and we see this all the time. Kids are doing really well, they can get all the way up, and then in grade four, all of a sudden you see groups of kids falling behind, and you may think it's because it's math or because they're not good at science, but a lot of times the root problem is actually that they're not reading at their grade level, so they're not able to process the information fast enough and it starts funneling into all the other subjects that they're working on. And so a big portion of this is because the way we've been teaching for a long time is not aligned with the science of reading.

Melanie:

So the science of reading is a body of research that says when we teach kids a certain way, how to read, they are more likely to be able to succeed.

Melanie:

And so I'm really trying to paraphrase this down in the simplest terms. But if we think about the way we're teaching kids to read right now, we learn at visual cues, we learn at what's in the picture and all these different things that help them until grade four. But then when we start taking away pictures, we start taking away these hints, it starts falling apart. And so the science of reading is really about teaching foundational reading skills so that way when you hit grade four, five, six, you can answer all of this yourself.

Melanie:

And so for only teaching how to read for about 30% of the population is able to read in any way then those 30% of kids are going to thrive and the other 70%, which is kind of syncs up with the stats, are going to start falling behind. So there's a big shift. The Ontario government did a right to read is implementing right to read report recommendations to try to shift the education system to the science of reading. But it's going to take a long time for kids, educators resources to catch up. So being able to use other sources whether it's your local library it's going to one-on-one tutoring company that's focused on evidence-based supports can help children in the meantime.

Amy:

And I assume then if you hit grade four and you are below grade level in your reading, it can make it extremely difficult to catch up once it's recognized, perhaps in grade six or seven, for example.

Melanie:

It's so much harder. So I cannot remember the stat, but there was a stat that said if you do reading intervention before grade one, it's something like you have a 90% success rate, but if you do the reading intervention after grade four it drops and I'm going to have the exact number wrong, but somewhere around the 10 to 15% range, like it's a huge difference. It's so much more difficult, it's possible, but it's so much more work once you've hit grade four. So that's why early intervention is so important.

Amy:

And you referenced that you were using pre-pandemic numbers. Do you think that the pandemic merely highlighted the problem and didn't necessarily cause the problem, as it sometimes said?

Melanie:

I think it's a combination of both. I think it definitely highlighted a problem that educators had raised but the general public wasn't necessarily aware of, especially because if you see your child with a picture book and in front of you, they look like they're reading and I see friends do this all the time. They send me a video and they're like look how great my child is reading. But once you know the clues of being able to tell when a child is actually guessing from the picture, you realize they're not reading. They're really good at guessing, and so I think on one hand, it definitely highlighted it, but on the other hand, it did make the problem so much worse because they had so much less access to education.

Melanie:

There were communities one of them that I know really worked with at Hoot when they actually they didn't have access to internet. So when people transition to online learning, these communities had nothing. They were given paper, you know, exercise sheets, but you're Belonging to a family where maybe your parents are also illiterate. You can see how quickly the education gaps widen. And then you add in the fact that now everyone had access to good Wi-Fi, now Everyone had access to good Technology, like there just were so many layers that made people fall further and further behind. And then, if you had access to money, you could pay for tutors, you could pay for Services like hoot reading, and then your kid is Likely going to be at that top of the class, while the people at the bottom are falling further and further behind.

Amy:

Yeah, we experienced that on a bunch of different levels, even if you don't have parent support, because not everyone was able to sit with their young children through the entire process. So it was a whole challenging thing. Of course, that's fascinating stats. I really find it interesting, and I I can see some of that with the ages of our children and whatnot, especially the early reading ours are. All were very good memorizers, so you're right about they weren't really reading, they were memorizing, which was the skill of itself, but not the reading skill that we were looking for. So what are your thoughts on literacy and education in general, then?

Melanie:

You know, my passion is really about improving equal access to opportunity, and to me, a huge part of that is Education.

Melanie:

Education is such a gift that we take for granted, especially here in Canada, and so, having worked in other other countries and other places when this gift isn't just granted, I think we have so much work to do and I think there's so much potential.

Melanie:

But I really do think it's about cross-sector collaboration. It's about working with organizations like the library, who are not just providing books but also providing programs to support children and their education. It's about bringing in corporations, major gift donors like. There are just so many people who have to come together To be able to address this cause, because if you don't address literacy, then it becomes adult literacy and their chance of breaking out of the cycle of poverty is so much lower, and so I think it's such an amazing Opportunity for us if we think of like an impact investment. To me, literacy and education is the greatest investment we can make, because you don't see the impact right away, but you see it 10, 20 years when they're able to break out of the cycle of poverty and have better health outcomes and better standard of living and where else in the world have you worked?

Melanie:

I've worked in Central America and then also Latin America, so one of my earlier jobs was being executive director of international children's foundation that worked in Peru and Bolivia and they did amazing work in rural communities where there weren't necessarily access to teachers because they were so remote. So we would bring teachers in, we would bring in resources, and I think those Opportunities to me are so special and I love. Even to this day I still stay connected with some of the projects I worked with and Actively work with them. Now the kids are adults who are innovating and coming up with solutions to help their community and I just think that is the greatest indicator of success someone could have.

Amy:

It must have been quite an experience to be able to see education in a different country. You mentioned how lucky we are in Canada to have access to it. How did that inform your Values or your goals?

Melanie:

going forward then it really changed who I was as a person. You know, a decade ago or over a decade ago, I volunteered at a children's home in Peru and that's where I saw that a the children were way smarter than Anyone I had met, like at that age. They were brilliant children, but they didn't have access to the same opportunities as us. That was my big aha moment, where it's like this is my life purpose. I want to dedicate my entire life to make sure that Children like these amazing kids have access to opportunities, have access to education, because it is so unfair that they are so smart, they are so kind, like just the kindest, most caring children you have ever met.

Melanie:

But statistically, I knew what they were likely going to face. They weren't going to have funding for a university. They weren't gonna. They would just be so many, barrier after barrier after barrier, all because of where they were, where they were born. Like it's just the lottery of where we are born, and so that definitely shapes everything I do. I still I'm working with one of the girls who is now grown-up woman, who is actually transforming that exact same location, that original orphanage that was for helping young kids. It moved to the Jungle and now she's taking that and she's actually building a home for orphans when they turn 18 to give them a community and then a place where they can learn the skills to be able to transition into the work world and Break the cycle of poverty. And so I just think it's shaped everything about who I am, my family, what I want to do in my life, and I'm so grateful to have had that opportunity.

Amy:

I can imagine, and lucky to see the sort of fruits of your labor already come to fruition, with these young children now Growing up and doing great things in the place where you found them.

Melanie:

Yes, and I had nothing to do with me, nothing to do, like I honestly think, like they changed my life and I went back, I think six times, and they still fundraise for them. But it's like if I was gonna say that relationship, I would say it's the one way, like I just got so much out of it, and so for me, it's like the least I can do is now fundraise to make sure that you can Continue your work, because you're all just such incredible individuals.

Amy:

So we're talking all about literacy. What are you currently reading? What am I currently reading.

Melanie:

I have a long list of books actually from the fellowship from Harvard.

Amy:

Oh, no way. Oh, you should share that with us for sure.

Melanie:

I don't. I actually I think I have them all upstairs, but I have a long list of books that I've been trying to get through that are just incredible focused on leadership and focused on empathetic leadership, focused on how to deal with conflict and challenging situations, and so they're all different, but I think the tying theme is that they all relate to how we can be more influential and Impactful leaders, and have you started any of them yet?

Melanie:

Yes, but I tend to start and stop. The one book that I have finished and I reread multiple times, which is here and I always recommend this, not from the fellowship, but it's from the Judy project, which is actually in Toronto, and I've read that- yes, I went and saw an IWF event about it.

Amy:

It was a great book.

Melanie:

It's an incredible book and so I read it first on my mat leave it's now like my go-to maternity leave present because I just found it so Inspiring and also a nice helpful little bit, and because it's in little bits I'm able to like reread it over and over again and I just love it. I love Colleen Moore ahead. I've heard her speak a few times and she's very inspirational.

Amy:

Well, you just answered my next question, because I do ask that of people what book do you gift the most? So that's the one.

Melanie:

Definitely this is the one I get the most for sure.

Amy:

It's a good gift. I've done it as well. Yeah, it's very, very good. So we've talked a little bit about your new position, and you know the fellowship. Before that, though, what was your first experience in a leadership position?

Melanie:

my first experience in a leadership position was that International Children's Foundation that we had spoken about.

Melanie:

So I I was 24 and I had just become an executive director, with very, very little experience, and it was such a humbling, incredible Learning opportunity because we had a board in Canada and we had a board and Peru, and so there were so many different aspects of learning, like. The first one was how to fundraise was a big one because I wasn't a fundraising background and that was the main responsibility in my job. The second, cross-cultural Communications like there were huge differences in cultures and how to communicate and understand that. And then the third one I think, which in all my roles I still need to learn, is really having needing to balance your passion for wanting to make a change with also the reality of Burnout and knowing that you need to think smart and strategically as opposed to working hard, and Although that sounds like common sense, I think my natural state is to just like work as hard as possible. So that was a really Great opportunity to learn that and learn the power of networks to create change.

Amy:

I don't think you're alone in me, just working and going and working hard. So you talked a little bit about burnout. What for you or in general, if for other people listening what are the signs of burnout?

Melanie:

so I am someone who has worked several times to the point of passing out, so I am Definitely awful for this. So that's the more extreme side. It's like if you pass out, you're probably burnt out. That's a little red flag, but I think, like Winding it up, like before you get to that because now I'm a lot better at noticing the signs I think the biggest sign is when you start Realizing you're not finding joy and the things that you used to like, something that you would normally Cherish and have a lot of fun doing. Now You're just trying to rush through to get to the next thing.

Melanie:

I think that's the first or a big sign.

Melanie:

A second one is when you're more irritable, which is similar to the first one, but just the way you treat people, and so I think that, to me, is always my biggest sign of burnout.

Melanie:

Is I? One of my core values that I really want to work on is always trying to be a kind and empathetic leader, and it's more about how you do something than what you end up achieving. And so, for me, the moment I realized I'm not being as kind or as full of gratitude as normal, I need to take a step back and think what's going on like I probably do I need to pause. Is there something I can take off my plate, something I need to say no to? And I think the third one for burnout is when you're working so hard that maybe it's blinding you from being strategic. I think that's like when you're just continuously going and you're never taking time for strategy. It's an easier one To realize that you're probably getting burnt out, because if you weren't burnt out, logic would tell you you need to take a rest to be able to be strategic, as opposed to keep going.

Amy:

I really like that last one. I think that's a valuable lesson, adding the strategy into it. Very, very good advice. Can we talk a little bit about your board work? So what boards are you involved with right now?

Melanie:

Sure, so there's three organizations I'm involved with. The first one is the Institute of Southern Georgian Bay, and so I am from, I was raised in Thornbury, ontario, and so I am a small town girl, and I just think that region has the most incredible potential to be Thought leaders on a national level, just because they have so many resources pouring in. They have Incredibly intelligent people, an incredible community, and so I joined the board there really because I Just am in so much awe of what they're doing and what they have potential to do. And so the Institute really is about being a think tank for local community initiatives, so bringing together leaders across sectors to brainstorm ideas to tackle really big challenges. And then the community maybe it's a foundation, maybe it's local government like we'll take on these ideas and implement them.

Amy:

You know that's an interesting board. I've asked a lot of women about the board. Is that they're on? And to say that it's a community board that helps the community thrive is something I've never heard of before.

Melanie:

Yeah, no, it's wonderful. It's a very small organization, but I think it's one that's going to grow a lot over the next few years, and I'm so excited to see the impact it creates. I.

Amy:

Okay, I'm going to ask you this question and I'm very curious to see what your answer is, Because I've asked some women that have sat on boards for decades and you're just starting out on your journey and I'm curious how do you decide which boards you would like to be involved with?

Melanie:

This is such a great question. I think for me it's about two things. The first one is it something I'm passionate about? Because I think what I've learned, especially from the fellowship, is that burnout isn't necessarily about how much you're doing, but it's about how much you're doing that doesn't fill your cup, and so being on a board is a lot of work, and so it needs to be something you're passionate about and that gets you excited, and so that's like the definite deal breaker. And then the second one is is it somewhere I can add value? Because I think there are some causes that I am so passionate about that I would love to be on the board of. It's not something where they're looking for my specific skill set, then it's going to end up being not as beneficial for the charity and not as big of an impact in the long run.

Amy:

And what are your thoughts or personal experiences with regard to the number of women represented on boards.

Melanie:

So I've been really lucky or, you could say, strategic in where I choose to spend my time.

Melanie:

But because my passion really is the social impact sector, we do tend to have a higher percentage of women on boards, and so that's something that I've cherished, but it's also something I've strategically chosen because I am always looking for those female mother role models, and I think it really shows when you're on a board that has balance, I think there's so much opportunity for growth.

Melanie:

But a big challenge that we're going to face when we're trying to grow that especially when we're talking about females who may be in their 30s 40s is that we have to get over that motherhood gap, Because if you're the caretaker every single evening in your home and I'm being very sexist, but this is the reality that many women face it's going to be a lot harder for you to be on a board position if all the board meetings are in the evenings, and so I think part of addressing the gender gap on boards, specifically nonprofit boards, is also looking at how we implement our meetings, how we implement our structures, and do we actually make it so they're accessible to people who do have kids, and if the answer is no, then we're leaving out a huge portion of the population.

Amy:

It's a good point to call out the motherhood gap, and as much as it's stereotypical and not everyone does it there are large women that are in it and do need help and assistance and guidance coming out the other side, so it's very wise to call it out. Did the fellowship program talk about gender gap in either pay or board or things like that, and did you find some guidance there as well for navigating your career?

Melanie:

The fellowship does talk about the gender gap.

Melanie:

I think they talked about it at NCOG, but more in the historical context.

Melanie:

I think the way the fellowship operates is definitely to address the gender gap in leadership, in boards, but their focus on how to address that gap, I think, is a three-pronged approach. It's the one, the mentorship with someone who's already bridged, who's already jumped over to the other side. The second one is the tools so really getting those lessons from Harvard, from NCAD, about how to communicate, how to improve your leadership. And then the third one is the network component. I think they're very strategic and they build a class, and I've heard them say they don't always pick the most successful people. They pick the people who are going to be the most successful to the cohort, and so it really is this idea of building a sisterhood or a collective of leaders who you can lean on as you move up through the ranks, which is something that actually Tricia had talked about in your last podcast, how she did with entrepreneurs. So I feel like it's a very similar model in the sense that we can all support each other as we navigate leadership challenges.

Amy:

It's very helpful to have a network in place as you go through all of these things, so it's fascinating that that is provided for you. I think that's a great thing for a young person to have as they start out on their career. You talked a lot about mentorship and the mentorship component of the fellowship. What have you learned that you think will make you a good mentor?

Melanie:

I think the biggest lesson for me in the regarding mentorship and the fellowship is that sometimes a mentor isn't about giving you the answer, but instead guiding you to find the answer yourself. And my mentor, that was something she did from day one. I would say here's my challenge. What do you think? And her response would be well, I think you're going to learn about A, b and C and that's going to help you, or how do you feel about this? And I'd be like that's not the answer. But I think that is really the goal of mentorship. Isn't that you're just someone that they go to for answers every single time something's wrong but instead you're giving them the tools to answer questions themselves and to look inside to understand what may be the best thing that's aligned with your personal values.

Amy:

And so I know we're a little short on time, but my last question is what is the biggest challenge facing female leaders today?

Melanie:

That's a really big question, so I think the answer is going to be biased, just based on my stage of life, but I think one of the biggest challenges as a female leader today is wanting to do everything, because that is what society tells us to do. We want to be amazing caretakers, whether that's with your kids or your parents. We want to be amazing in building our careers. We want to be in shape, like there's this massive, long list of things that we are told we need to be perfect at, but the truth is, everything is a trade-off, and so I think the biggest challenge for female leaders today is understanding that having everything can lead, and most likely will lead, to burnout. So understanding what is going to give on your long list of to-dos to be able to make your success sustainable.

Amy:

It's good advice and I enjoy hearing your perspective on it as a young leader emerging leader so it's good to hear where you're coming from. Thank you for taking the time. I really enjoyed learning about the fellowship program and I'm really looking forward to following your career as you move on, and I'm also really looking forward to the day that you become an IWF member and we can run into each other at events as well.

Melanie:

Thank you so much. It was so lovely to be here and I'm extremely grateful to be able to keep in touch.

Amy:

Absolutely Well. Thank you for telling us all about the fellowship program. I think our members probably don't know enough about it and hopefully young leaders listening might reach out and take the opportunity and have all the experiences that you had.

Melanie:

I hope so Honestly. I think it's the greatest program out there. It's incredible.

Amy:

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Amy Schlueter

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