Big Gorgeous Goals: Julie Ellis on Entrepreneurship, Leadership and Graceful Growth

On today's episode, we talk with Julie Ellis. Julie is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, author and podcast host. Julie shares her remarkable journey, from her experience as a co-founder of Mabel's Labels to her authorship of Big Gorgeous Goals and to her new adventure as the host of the Figure 8 podcast. Join us as we explore how Julie's background in dance has uniquely shaped her entrepreneurial philosophy and what it means to get 'the seat cushion off your butt.'

Additionally, Julie shares practical advice on scaling a business and discusses the unique challenges faced by entrepreneurs at different stages. Learn how Julie is working to help women get connected, solve problems, grow bigger businesses and reach their own big, gorgeous goals.

Connect with Julie:
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During our conversation, we talk about some past episodes. Please find the links here:
Ginny Dybenko

Resources:
Big Gorgeous Goals: How Bold Women Achieve Great Things
Figure 8 Podcast

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Transcript

Julie: 0:00

Interviewing women who have big businesses and you might not even know who they are or what they did, and I find revealing some of those stories to be really, really interesting and I get a lot of pleasure out of learning because I think I'm a student of why. Why do we start businesses? How do people get an idea to do something that no one else may have ever thought of?

Amy: 0:25

Welcome to Voices of Leadership, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the remarkable women of the International Women's Forum. I'm your host, amy, and I'm inviting you on a journey through the minds of trailblazers. Today, we talk with Julie Ellis. Julie is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, author and podcast host. Julie shares her remarkable journey, from her experience as a co-founder of Mabel's Labels to her authorship of Big, gorgeous Goals and to her new adventure as the host of the Figure 8 podcast. Learn how Julie is working to help women get connected, solve problems, grow bigger businesses and reach their own big, gorgeous goals. Welcome, julie, it's wonderful to finally meet you.

Julie: 1:08

Thank you, it's so great to meet you too, amy. It feels like we have so many people in common. We keep hearing about each other and finally, here we are.

Amy: 1:16

I know it's fantastic and I'm so excited to be talking to a fellow podcaster.

Julie: 1:20

I'm looking forward to our conversation today.

Amy: 1:23

So let's start with IWF. You are a member of the Toronto chapter. Can you tell us who introduced you to IWF?

Julie: 1:33

I had known a couple of people who were members of IWF and then Ginny Domenko, a member in the Waterloo chapter, actually recommended me for membership and I've known Ginny for quite a long time through my entrepreneurial journey at Maples Labels while she was at Wilfrid Laurier University.

Amy: 1:47

Oh, that's an interesting connection. So how did you first meet Ginny Like?

Julie: 1:51

a lot of things you know, people who came into our circle as mentors and who had you know, advice for us and we kept in touch with a lot of people. I have a lot of people who have been mentors at various points who I'm still in touch with and I feel really grateful for that I feel like everybody I talk to says that Ginny is a mentor.

Amy: 2:11

I'm not sure how she has time for it all.

Julie: 2:14

I'm not either, and you know it wasn't like a monthly thing, it probably wasn't even a regular thing, but it was just the. You know, every now and then she'd fly in and give some great advice and and then, you know, we might not see each other again for quite a number of months, but she's just kind of always been in in our corner and I've always stayed in touch with her.

Amy: 2:34

I feel the same way it's. I reach out when in need or have something to talk about, and she's always there. Yeah, so you have a BA in arts from the University of Waterloo. Yeah, so you have a BA in arts from the University of Waterloo, but I think your focus was on dance. Is that correct?

Julie: 2:47

It was, it was. So I went to University of Waterloo for dance, and there was a little claim to fame, because the University of Waterloo dance program came out of the kinesiology department, and so at one point in time it was a Bachelor of Science in dance, which was very unusual. By the time I went, it had morphed into a Bachelor of Arts, and while I was there, the university actually cut the program, so we were among the last classes that went through.

Amy: 3:15

So I assume then you did some work with Carousel. I was a student there.

Julie: 3:19

Oh, were you? Oh, that's so fun. Yes, because they were in the same studio space that we used during the day.

Amy: 3:25

That's right, so, laura and Ruth and, yes, all of those lovely people. So I thought that was pretty lovely people. So I see that dance still seems to be a part of your identity, though with some of the programs you offer, dance your way from seven to eight figures.

Julie: 3:38

Yes, Well, and I mean I think dance is a great metaphor because there's a lot of beauty in it. I think dance is a great metaphor because there's a lot of beauty in it, but there's a lot of sort of underlying strength and discipline that comes with it, and really I like to take the idea that it doesn't have to be hard, and so if we can feel like we're dancing our way and we have people around us to help us get there, we can do things in a way that doesn't have to be grinded out.

Amy: 4:06

I love that metaphor. That's really fantastic. I enjoy that. I could use that sometimes so let's talk podcasting. You recently started the Figure Eight podcast, so why did you decide to start a podcast? Was it a big, gorgeous goal of yours?

Julie: 4:21

Was it a big, gorgeous goal of yours?

Julie: 4:24

It was, and I think you know it sprang out of the work that I began with the book in the idea that, so I mean, the stats are bad for women entrepreneurs. You know, 1.9% of venture capital went to women entrepreneurs in 2022. 2023 was not much better, and we are, you know, underrepresented, I think, at the table when it comes to growing bigger businesses. And yet there are women out there in the world with their heads down growing great businesses, and so I had the idea that in my small corner of the world, if I could shed light on some of the great things women are doing, that other entrepreneurs coming behind would see what was possible and where they might be able to go to. So I'm in conversation with women entrepreneurs who are in the seven figures of revenue so one to 10 million, or eight and above, 10 million and above and we have conversations about how they came to be an entrepreneur, how they grew their business, what struggles they are currently having or have had in the past and just really to hear about their story.

Amy: 5:32

Well, it's a great listen. I encourage everybody to have a listen. Thank you. Now can you tell me a little bit what was the process like from ideation to interviewing your first guest?

Julie: 5:41

I knew that I wanted to do a podcast, and I got some really great advice early on in the ideation phase about really narrowing down what I was going to do with it, and I did a lot of research and I got a little bit stuck in it and finally phoned a friend who has a podcast and she gave me 30 minutes of her time and said you got to do this, this, this and this. Here are the people, here's the software I'll introduce you Go. And once I did that, the podcast came together really quickly and launched within sort of three months. Good for you, wow, yeah. So that was exciting. And what was it like to talk to your first guest? Oh, it was really fun.

Julie: 6:21

I made a list of people that I knew already and started interviewing, basically, and so I set it up so that I would do a preliminary call to do a little bit of a question and answer and figure out what the angle was. I wanted to talk with them about what I felt like was unique about them and just started doing interviews, and some of the women I knew quite well and others a little bit less so, but the interviews all went great, and so we did a five episode drop to start off, and then I've been releasing bi-weekly podcasts ever since, and I'm always looking now for referrals. I'd like to have a geographically diverse group of guests, something that I'm very conscious of, and right now, to date, all the episodes I've released have all been white women entrepreneurs. So looking for diversity. If you think, 1.9% of venture capital goes to women in general, the percentage that goes to women of color is infinitesimally smaller than that, and so it is, you know, something I'm really conscious of and working on and leaning into network to get introductions to people.

Amy: 7:31

Well, you know, that is the next step. You always talk to people you know, and then I call it the wishlist. So who's the big wishlist, who's the big guest on your wishlist?

Julie: 7:41

I've got a couple of big guests on my wishlist, like Whitney Hurd who founded Bumble. I've got like Joanna Griffiths who founded NYX. You know some of the big, you know women, powerhouse names that I think would be really interesting interviews. But I think there's something really great in interviewing women who have big businesses and you might not even know who they are or what they did, and I find revealing some of those stories to be really, really interesting. And I get a lot of pleasure out of learning because I think I'm a student of why, why do we start businesses, how do people get an idea to do something that no one else may have ever thought of? And so I love to sit and listen to stories about how people came to an idea and how they brought it to life and how they grew it into something that is a force.

Amy: 8:38

Well, I can't wait to hear all of the guests in the future. Thank you, all of the guests in the future, thank you. So not only are you a podcaster, you are also an author. Your book Big Gorgeous.

Julie: 8:52

Goals how.

Amy: 8:52

Bold Women Achieve Great Things is a great read. I really enjoyed it. Oh, thank you. So before we talk about the book, can you tell us a little bit about what was the experience like in writing the book?

Julie: 9:01

So I originally wrote a keynote and I went and got some public speaking training, wrote a keynote, started taking it out into the world and that quickly developed into a workshop. So you know, you take your 45 minutes and turn it into 90 minutes or three hours or a half a day workshop, and even at the workshop length I felt like I had more to say. I felt like the same questions kept coming up and the stories I told about my own journey were really resonating with people, and so I was curious about other people's stories and about. You know, how did my story fit to? What other people's experiences were and were the things that I sort of was foundationally believing? Did other people also have that experience?

Julie: 9:48

And so I went out and spoke with quite a lot of women 16 of them ended up in the book and their stories are there about how they've gone and accomplished big, gorgeous goals. And you know, really it's about systems, people and processes and whether you are a really really big blue sky thinker and ideas type person or whether you're the person who builds up the systemization and gets things rolling in the way they need to. Those three ingredients seem to be common in what people wanted and needed in order to chase their big, gorgeous, goals.

Amy: 10:23

I enjoyed all the stories. That was a great element of the book. It was enjoyable to read everybody's stories. Now talking about stories, though, in the book you write about your own transition out of Maples Labels. Can you talk to us about what that transition felt like and how did you eventually get the seat cushion off your butt?

Julie: 10:41

Well, I think as entrepreneurs we are wired to climb. We reach one achievement and we say okay, so on to the next, on to the next. And I certainly saw that in us at Mabel's, where we didn't always want to stop and celebrate those successes. It was more like, okay, but there's more. No, but there's more. And so I wasn't really prepared to sit on the plateau that naturally came after we sold the business and I ended up leaving after about six months, which wasn't really what I thought would happen. I thought I would stay at Mabel's Labels forever. I was a lifer and suddenly I wasn't.

Julie: 11:22

And that plateau was a difficult place to you know, your mind starts to tell you things like you know is the best thing you ever did in the rearview mirror. And you know, when you're in your 40s and you're like God, I hope not, but you're not sure. And so the pressure to move forward and not fail and not do things, you know, it's that vision of you. Know, what will people say? What will the outside world think of that? As opposed to you know, what do I really want to do, how do I feel I can make a difference and what will make me really happy? Those two things were sort of at odds, and I did. I sank into a kind of a small and scared place where yes, as I like to joke the couch. I was stuck on my couch and you couldn't go and do anything great with a couch cushion stuck to your butt. So I needed to find a way to allow myself to do some experimenting.

Amy: 12:18

So what was the first thing that got you off the couch? I?

Julie: 12:21

started to land some small sort of coaching and consulting gigs with people and eventually then I took a role where I ran a company for somebody else and you know he the owner and founder, co-founder wanted to step back from his day-to-day role and spend some time with his family, and so I stepped in and I had all the team was reporting to me, I reported to him and I took that role on for about 18 months and what I really learned in that was there was a lot still left for me to do, but I wanted to build something for myself, and that led me back to thinking about how I wanted to be an entrepreneur again and you know that was the theme I realized, you know, after the acquisition and why I left Mabel's and then why I ultimately left that second role. The theme for me was I did want to build for myself and I went then and took courses to become a certified coach. So that was my first sort of step back into building something for myself. Before I wrote the book or before the podcast existed.

Julie: 13:32

I had always I love working with teams and I love figuring out how to sort of get them going, get things humming along and get them working in the right way together, get communication open, get processes and systems built that help to facilitate communication and all of the things that are needed as you're working on scaling something. So I thought that going towards coaching would give me. It was always my management style. Going towards coaching would give me. It was always my management style, and so it seemed like there would be a fit for me and that it would be. You know, whether it was the ultimate entrepreneurial venture or not, there was going to be a lot of great learning for me in that.

Amy: 14:17

Well, I really thought it was important for you to share that story because outwardly sometimes it can look like you built this fantastic product, you sold it to Avery and everything must be wonderful on the other side, and the reality is especially in an unexpected transition. As you mentioned, it's not always the case. It's not doom and gloom, but it's still challenging and it's good for all the entrepreneurs to hear that. I think.

Julie: 14:38

Yeah, well, and it's interesting because one of my podcast guests talked about interesting, because one of my podcast guests talked about adding before you subtract, and I would tell you that I did not add anything before. I made a huge subtract after we sold the business and I think it is why that plateau was more difficult for me than it might have been.

Amy: 15:02

So you mentioned coaching. That was your first step. Yes, so how much is coaching now part of what you do, since you're doing 12 other things?

Julie: 15:11

It's hard to keep them balanced. I will say that 12 other things. But I love coaching. I learned in the pandemic that I don't only want to do coaching. I did a lot of coaching. It became my full time job when the pandemic came and the speaking and the workshops kind of stopped and I learned because I think I give a lot to my coaching clients. It's a lot of energy out kind of work, and so I need to balance that with things that are fun and give me energy, and that is where the 12 other things like it's a good mix for me. I do just need to be careful about I love to say yes to too many things like many of us.

Julie: 15:50

Yes, I need to be careful about that and I need to manage my time and be deliberate about you know, where am I giving time for free? What am I putting, you know, my time into to build, and then, where do I actually get revenue from? And that sort of you know, and so it's a constant balancing act, but I really enjoy it and I'm having a lot of fun.

Amy: 16:15

Well, that's good. I mean, that's always the end game. If you're doing 12 things, you want them to be fun, and that doesn't mean they're awesome all the time. It just means, overall, that they're fun, exactly. So let's talk about the book a little bit more. So, for those who have yet to read it, everyone should. Can you tell us what a big, gorgeous goal is?

Julie: 16:33

It's a goal where you don't have all the ingredients to successfully complete it at your disposal or in your arsenal right now. It's the kind of goal where you probably feel a little or a lot scared or intimidated by it, or like it's you couldn't possibly. The imposter comes out a little bit and you feel like maybe you're not worthy of wanting or desiring that outcome. So it's, then, about you know how do you start putting, I think, the thing with you know we all know about SMART goals and we all use them really well in our lives, and they are important, but they can also lead you to sort of ticking things off of a to-do list and and that you're not reaching into the unknown. And big, gorgeous goals are about reaching into the unknown and chasing what we really, really, really desire in our lives, and I think they're about stepping into our magnificence.

Amy: 17:33

So that was actually going to be my next question is you talk about to-do list goals and big, gorgeous goals. And you just mentioned that there's a big difference between the two. Why is it important to distinguish between the two of them?

Julie: 17:45

between the two. Why is it important to distinguish between the two of them? Because we can feel very accomplished checking boxes on things that aren't actually moving the needle for us, and that's where we get into the. You know, our thinking can get smaller and smaller and smaller Because ultimately, I think those to-do list goals are rooted in a little bit of fear. So if we have fear as the base of our goal setting, it's going to keep us in a smaller place than we can grow to if we really chase the things that feel impossible.

Amy: 18:15

And I imagine some people must say to you well, I need a list in order to get to the big gorgeous goals. So how do I work those two together, or how do I stay on track with the big gorgeous goal versus the to-do lists?

Julie: 18:46

piece and the small goals are the little building blocks and the steps forward that keep us accountable to moving forward with that big, gorgeous goal. Because it's also really easy to set a big, gorgeous goal and then sort of like dump it like a hot potato at the side of the road because it feels scary and it feels so uncertain for you to actually be able to do it. So they have a place where they fit together. But I think if we only stay in one side or the other, we actually don't make progress, so both are needed.

Amy: 19:15

I like that. That's a good way to understand how to use both of them to help make you successful. Yeah, you also say in the book that world domination is a full-time job, which I love. Can you tell us what you mean by that?

Julie: 19:28

Well, that you have to take the time to think about. You know, okay great, I cleared out my inbox today. How did that actually move me towards the world domination, the big, gorgeous goal that I want to be chasing, that I'm supposed to be going after right now? I mean, none of us can afford to let our emails be a disaster. It's the currency of today's work.

Julie: 19:56

But you also have to not hide behind things like a perfectly clean inbox and a great to-do list and a you know, all of the things that are actually really where we're living out our fears about chasing something really big. We revert to whatever it is that we find the most comfortable and and so you know it might be something different for you it, but it's ultimately keeping us from really, you know, pushing the boundaries of what's comfortable and what we feel like we know, and that's where you're learning new things and you're trying things out, and I talk a lot in my keynote about the idea of being a scientist Put on a lab coat and do some experiments, because experiments are supposed to fail. That is what you are supposed to do as you make your way to success, and I think we get conditioned to. You know that success has to be big and it has to be immediate. You know, meanwhile I mean Mabel's Labels was a 12-year overnight success right.

Julie: 21:01

You don't just one day wake up and Avery Labels calls you and you sell your business. It takes time, but we're so accustomed to seeing the highlight reels of people's lives, the social media posts that are all happy and winning, as opposed to those pieces of how can I go through and do a whole bunch of experiments where I'm going to have failures and I'm going to learn from them and I'm going to pick myself up and I'm going to try it again in a different way and then I'm going to learn how I'm going to move forward and really make something of this?

Amy: 21:32

I like that. I mean, my big pet peeve is we talk a lot about failure is good and everyone should do it, but we never talk about our actual failures or what we learned from them or admit that they even happened. Yes, so you also talk about an inflection point.

Julie: 21:52

How does that factor into achieving a big, gorgeous goal? I think we all reach those points where you know it's where a lot of resistance starts to come in, and it's often when we're on the cusp of breakthrough and big change. And so the closer we get to that moment of change, the more resistance we feel, the more our confidence comes into question, the more we're like am I the right person for this? Why am I doing this? Who did I think I was? Anyway? All starts to rise up to the surface, and it really is that point where you know you're about to just lever yourself forward, but we hold ourselves back.

Julie: 22:28

And so when you hit that point where you're like, oh, I don't know, I don't know if this is good, like you got to find a way, like what are your ways to push through that? Who are the people to bring around you? How do you examine that? How do you, you know, break out of the? I'm going to clean out my inbox this afternoon and go and contemplate, like what's the actual next step I need to take? Why am I feeling this way? What's what could happen? You know what magic is right around the corner, what's there? And and if I just keep pushing into this discomfort that I'm feeling, how I can get to that breakthrough point?

Amy: 23:09

And can you tell us about an inflection point you had when writing the book?

Julie: 23:14

Oh well, when I had finished the first draft of the book, I ideated the book for about a year, but then I joined a writing group and it was a daily group and I was able to write the book in about a period of six or seven months, and it just by by going like for an hour every day and actually, you know, turning off my notifications and not looking at my phone and writing. And then I submitted the book to the publisher page two and about a month later I got back my first round of developmental edits and it was a real struggle for me. I found the editing process more difficult than writing the book, which was super interesting because you think the writing is the hard part. I thought the hard part was over, but for me the hard part was actually shaping it. And thank goodness for Kendra Ward, who was my developmental editor, because she had a vision and we really restructured the whole of what I had written into a format where people could really take a bite-sized piece and come away with information, or they could read the whole book and learn it at a deeper level. And it was like a really you know, working with a good editor is really golden when you write a book and she was really great.

Julie: 24:39

But it was that resistance point of you. Know you're putting this thing out into the world like is everybody going to hate it? Is it any good? Resistance point of you. Know you're putting this thing out into the world like is everybody going to hate it? Is it any good? Have I? You know all of those questions that start to come up, and I spent a lot of time sort of laying on my couch being like I need to, I need to work on this edit, I need to, and you know I did get myself off that couch and get moving, but it was. It's a very vulnerable feeling and I think the writing, like I was like okay, I can do that for an hour a day, I can do this, right, okay, check. But then when you start having to more deeply like examine your own work and have other people giving you feedback on it, it is a more vulnerable feeling and I think that's why that phase was hard for me.

Amy: 25:24

I can see how that would be challenging, because writing's like these are my ideas and here's my stream of consciousness. But now I have to make it make sense to the world.

Julie: 25:33

Yes, and things you realize too, things that make perfect sense to you and your editor's, like huh and you're like, but no, it's yeah, so it's learning, I think, also to take that step back. And you know, raise yourself up, Like I always talk in business about, like, if you're flying in the weeds, you know you have to raise yourself up to 30,000 feet and have the big high view. You can't always stay down at ground level and that's really what that process was like and you know. So, things I thought were really clear were not, and it took a lot of effort to to think about how to expand them and how to make them really into this bite sized pieces that were digestible for the reader.

Amy: 26:20

You talked about vulnerability. So what was it like when the book launched? Like how did that feel the day? I don't know if it was released or if you had a party, or, but how did that feel that it was actually out in the world and you can't take it back?

Julie: 26:33

It's an interesting. So the woman that I worked with in the daily writing group always talked about how you've got to be careful because launch day is actually the start line, not the finish line, and so it's really easy to feel exhausted when you arrive at that start line because this book has been. You know, I submitted the book over a year, almost 13 months before it actually was released. So you know the editing process, the titling process, the cover art process, like all of the different phases of it deciding what quality to print it in, like so many decisions, creating a list of people who I would tell about the you know there's just there's a lot of work, and so getting to the launch day in some way, you know you could be like, oh, I'm exhausted, finally it's out there, but really now it's like, okay, so now this book needs to sell and I am a big part of making sure that it sells.

Julie: 27:35

If it's going to sell, it's going to be because I put effort into it. So that was interesting and I did. I was so fortunate in terms of timing I was able to have. I had a virtual launch party, but I also was able to have an in-person launch party, which wasn't guaranteed in 2022. But it was really wonderful to bring people from all different parts of my life and my work together to celebrate that.

Amy: 28:02

Oh well, that's good, congratulations. I mean, it's such an accomplishment I couldn't imagine going through that process, so I love hearing about it from others.

Julie: 28:10

Yeah, it was really great. It was a great process and now I'm still I mean the book's about to turn two and I'm still working on, you know, making book sales, talking about the book, and you know my work is still based around a lot of the things that I offer in the book Is there another one coming. Not right now, but maybe in the future we'll see this one still has lots of life in it.

Amy: 28:36

It does. Can you tell us about one of the stories from one of the women that you interviewed?

Julie: 28:42

Ah well, I mean talking about people who don't always understand, like they don't always feel their ideas are understood. And my friend Kelsey tells a story in the book about how, in 2012, she started a subscription box service for kids, so moms of kids who wanted to do great crafts and activities with their kids would get a monthly box in the, in the mail that was themed and had you know, educational, you know information with it and all of the things. And she couldn't get that business off the ground. And she tried for a couple of years and, you know, eventually she decided to move on and do something else.

Julie: 29:28

But she always felt like a lot of validation when subscription box businesses took off, like she was still incredibly proud of her idea because she wasn't wrong, her timing was wrong, and I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it because, you know, back to our earlier comments about failure, right, like a lot of people could have said, well, that, you know, just didn't work, it's a failure. But she looked at it a little bit differently around the okay, I did an experiment and I was right that it was going to happen, but I didn't have the right timing and maybe the you know, the world wasn't quite set up in a way at that time where people were looking for that sort of thing, so it was a really interesting story. I think around. How do you know if your timing is right? I don't know how you ever know, truly but that, what can you take away from something that doesn't work out, what can you learn from it and what can you carry forward in whatever it is you're going to do after that?

Amy: 30:31

Well, and it's a great example of failure is not a bad word. No, you're going to do after that. Well, and it's a great example of failure. Is not a bad word. No, it was and it is, and she looked at it this way and really everybody should probably look at it that way at the end of the day.

Julie: 30:42

Yeah, yeah, it was, I think, a really interesting view that I hadn't considered before when we talked about that.

Amy: 30:50

So let's talk a little bit about scaling your business, because that's the theme of the podcast and that is, I assume, what your coaching is often focused on. Yes, yeah, so do you apply some of the things you coach people to to what you're doing with regard to scaling?

Julie: 31:08

Yes, although being a sort of solopreneur and thinking about scaling is a little bit challenging. You know, there's a school of thought around making the quantum leap is actually easier than the incremental leap, because to do the quantum leap you actually have to think about how you would do things completely differently. It's not like, okay, I'm getting a little busier so maybe I'll hire a VA. It's the like, okay, how am I going to just totally disrupt this and, you know, grow my business exponentially, really, really quickly. So I think there's something in that, you know, when I think about myself and then when I think about other people, scaling and lessons I can take from that. I mean, scaling is really about learning how to do things over and over and over again with a high degree of skill, which some entrepreneurs find hard because they want to move on to the next thing.

Amy: 32:02

They don't want to do the same thing over and over again. That's a good definition of it. I like that.

Julie: 32:06

Yeah, and so it's figuring out what are the underlying processes and systems and people that help you to do those things reliably over and over again.

Amy: 32:19

Well, you said something interesting about being a solopreneur, which many people are, or a very small, small business. They can scale, but it's probably a different process than perhaps a more established business. Is that correct?

Julie: 32:33

I would say a little bit yes, I think it's, you can scale. Yes, but it is about well, yeah, what do you want? What do you want, I think, is always at the heart of you. Know, when you're a solopreneur, you have more control over that, whereas once you're putting a team together and're growing a business and you have those bigger obligations, it looks a little bit different, for sure.

Amy: 32:58

Yeah, also, what advice do you have for entrepreneurs who are at a tipping point and they're getting ready to scale their business?

Julie: 33:05

It'll feel scary. It'll feel like you don't know what you're doing. Every single day you'll wake up and feel like you don't know what you're doing and I would actually tell you that when it gets to feeling like you know what you're doing, you're probably at another tipping point. I always felt that way and I still do. It's like when I feel like I have it all together and it's humming along and everything's going great, then something's coming. Something's coming and it's an inflection point about something. So you're tipping over into the next level of growth. You're tipping over to where processes that you built don't serve you anymore. Everything's breaking, communication isn't good, all of those pieces where things are shifting and changing and you've got to roll and adapt and keep working until you land into the next kind of more stable period and even things, like you know, you get better at it.

Julie: 34:05

Like you launch a website and in an e-commerce business, for example, you launch a website and you don't really think about when you're going to refresh that website in the early days.

Julie: 34:15

You just you're go, go, go, go go and suddenly you realize your website kind of doesn't do what you need it to do anymore and you need to build another one.

Julie: 34:23

Well, eventually you start to say we just built another one, so in two years we're going to make a calendar reminder where we're going to sit down and evaluate how much longer this website's going to last us and what the process to the website after that looks like.

Julie: 34:38

But in the early days you don't think about that, and so it feels like things are breaking down around you and you know. All of a sudden you're like wow, like oh, we should have replaced that six months ago. That software doesn't do what we need anymore. There's too many people in the company now and we're not getting the right people to the table for communication at meetings or the HR thing of suddenly people are complaining about things. Where in the early days everybody was just pulling together to make a success out of something, now I suddenly have people who feel like employees Totally normal, and it happens to everybody but sometimes those things are a shock as the entrepreneur who's living through it, and so it's about finding help on the way and knowing that those tipping points happen, and they're actually a good thing, because it means your business is growing and changing and thriving.

Amy: 35:32

I like the website example. It's almost like taking control of the tipping point, yes, and that would be less of a shock and maybe easier to deal with and get to the next level, I would think.

Julie: 35:42

Yeah.

Amy: 35:44

A lot of your focus is also on helping women get to the next level, so what advice do you have for the next generation of women leaders?

Julie: 35:52

I think it's to keep learning and build networks and get out into the real world and build the skills through meeting people and building a great network. I think we're all so screenbound these days and remembering to build our social networks and our social capital and how that helps all of us to have people to call when we're in trouble and to be able to put down the screens and close the computer and get out into the world to learn more about ourselves and to build connection.

Amy: 36:34

That's great advice Young entrepreneurs and old ones like me. So we've talked a lot about tipping points and inflection and big, gorgeous goals. So I know you're doing 12 things, but what's next for you?

Julie: 36:48

I'm continuing to work on growing the community around big, gorgeous goals and you know, the podcast is a piece of that, Workshops are a piece of that. More keynoting is another piece of that. So I'm to some degree not necessarily adding anything new to the 12, but I'm sort of doubling down on some of the things and trying to see what new things I can sort of tease out of the things that are already in the portfolio of work that I have.

Amy: 37:22

So people often say workshop, and it means many different things. What does that look like for you?

Julie: 37:27

I think it looks like something interactive where we can share stories and experiences and go away feeling inspired and feeling like we have community to help us to move towards what it is that we really want. Ooh, I would come to that workshop Fantastic.

Amy: 37:48

Thank you for your time and it was lovely to get to know you and I loved hearing about the process of the book and I loved reading the book and listening to the podcast and I think that you definitely got off the couch with great success and I really look forward to what you're going to do next. Thanks so much for having me, Amy. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and subscribe to our podcast. When you do this, it raises our podcast profile so more leaders can find us and be inspired by the stories our Voices of Leadership have to share. If you would like to connect with us, please visit the Voices of Leadership website. It can be found in our show notes.